So. Utah under flash flood watch

[Iceaxe]

So. Utah under flash flood watch

ST. GEORGE

[stefan]

by the way ... the link to the newly-updated, national weather service flash flood site for utah is:


Flash Flood Forecast ~ National Weather Service

Brian McInerney (at the NWS in salt lake) has worked hard on getting this up. i have suggested making a separate designation for the area containing the dirtydevil-northwash-north powell.

note: it can always be found at the top of the Canyoneering Links Sticky Thread

_________________________

i thought a few definitions may be useful for clarification:

note: there is a technical difference between the terms 'warning' and 'watch' which the nws maintains

Flash flood - A rapid (generally within six hours) rise of water along a stream or low-lying area after a heavy rainfall or from the failure of a dam, levee, or ice jam. By definition, flash flooding is life-threatening.


Flood - A flood occurs when water overflows the confines of a river, stream, or body of water, or accumulates in poorly drained low-lying or urban areas.


Hazardous Weather Outlook/Special Weather Statement - issued to alert the public of the potential for flooding/flash flooding. These products provide information on potentially hazardous weather out to 7 days.


Flash Flood Potential Rating - A qualitative rating (Low, Moderate, High, or Very High), indicative of the potential for flash flooding.


Flash Flood Watch - Issued when conditions are favorable for flash flooding. A watch usually gives 12 to 36 hours advance notice of the onset. A watch indicates a need for planning, preparation, and an increased awareness of changing weather conditions.


Flood Watch - Issued when conditions are favorable for river flooding. A watch usually gives 12 to 36 hours advance notice of the onset.


Flash Flood Warning - Issued when:

[goofball]

was talkign to hans flat yesterday and they had a downpour that took out the flint trail for a bit according to rangerette. they also believe the high spur road is washed out bad, but haven't driven it yet. crap. was able to drive it no problem in my hyundai last november but i guess this one http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=...ad27&layer=DRG will have to wait a bit... again...

[Scott Card]

Weird how these weather/flash flood things are. Me, my daughter and 4 others did the Subway yesterday. We started in partly cloudy conditions and it cleared up for the rest of the day. I had my eye to the sky while hiking down all the slick rock with a mind to turn back if the clouds thickened at all but I started to see clearing from the south and the clouds started to break up as we hit the chimney down climb. By the time we were at Keyhole falls, it sunny and blue sky. And we got sunburned. We did see the remnants from some gully washers from days prior, the most significant were coming in from the East side or right looking down canyon. Hardly a sign of any rain from the west side and nothing from the top of the subway proper (Russel's Gulch) that showed any significant rain. All the signs of flashing were from blow the Subway proper part of the hike. I'll post some photos of my little Subway trip later.

[Iceaxe]

Weird how these weather/flash flood things are.

Agree.... some storms have to be really localized. I've watched The Squeeze flash big time while Knotted Rope doesn't get a drop of water. The strange part is both these routes exit into the Muddy River Gorge within a couple hundred yards of each other. I also watched Echo and Pine Creek flash big and we got nothing in Mystery. The storm only nailed the Great White Throne.

[James_B_Wads2000]

Not too surprised you saw this, the two drainages point in opposite directions. Plus the drainage for the Squeeze is much larger. My guess that it floods larger and more often than Knotted Rope.

Its pretty scary, kind of like lightning: it happens but you never know where.


James

[Iceaxe]

Its pretty scary, kind of like lightning: it happens but you never know where.

The really scary one for me was watching White Canyon flash last year. A bright blue day without a could in the sky..... it rained (down pour) for about an hour over Cheese Box the evening prior. It took about 10 hours for the surge to reach where we had camped. If we had not of watched the storm the night before I would have had no clue..... my caution level for a large drainage went way up after watching that little episode.

[Scott Card]

Its pretty scary, kind of like lightning: it happens but you never know where.

my caution level for a large drainage went way up after watching that little episode.

This is precisely the reason that I maintain the scariest place to be in Zion Park, particularly during Monsoon season, is the Narrows. When we left Zion yesterday it was blue sky over the park but to the north, far out of view of the narrows visitors, were some very ominous clouds. Appears from the flow levels that the Virgin river is again flashing somewhat.

[Iceaxe]

This is precisely the reason that I maintain the scariest place to be in Zion Park, particularly during Monsoon season, is the Narrows.

Yeah but....

The Narrows are really only scary for the mile section above the confluence with Ordeville. Just about every where else safety is just a hop, skip and jump away.

I was in Imlay once and a big thunderstorm moved over head.... now that was scary.... we were in the center of the Deep Narrows with no place to run and hide and the nearest safe spot was an hour away.... that was probably the most scared I have ever been of getting killed by a flash flood.

[Scott Card]

Agreed. Any canyon you are in when the rain comes down on you is scary. I was in the Squeeze when a rain storm started and holy crap you have never seen four guys rap, swim and jump faster. My point is that the narrows seem to be the only Zion canyon where you can be under completely sunny skys in the park and be nailed by a flash flood from a rain storm pretty far away. Of course you can be swept away from any rain storm from directly above.

[Iceaxe]

I've seen a lot of flash floods..... you do get "some" warning..... maybe only a few seconds, often much more. And you can often out run them for a short distance.... which is why I never considered the Narrows to be super dangerous. The slots that scare me are the ones with no place to run and no place to hide.

[tanya]

It's crazy here right now! Trees falling on houses..... our golf course flooded... what a mess!

[CarpeyBiggs]

Ah Snap! Pine Creek with flow this weekend, perhaps?

Or better yet, maybe stay home and not die?

[CarpeyBiggs]

Looks like Kolob Terrace Road suffered some pretty bad damage in the flood tonight, but I'm not sure where at. Word is the road is closed right now... Might put a damper on the das boot idea?

[rockgremlin]

Wow...so what's the contingency plan?

[tanya]

Not golf. Our course is filled with thick thick mud..... what a mess! I am afraid to look outside today! It was stilling pounding hard when I went to bed last night! Sewers are backed up all over the place. People evacuated from Virgin....

Not a safe place in canyons here right now!

I was watching the East Fork yesterday... it's raging!

[rockgremlin]

Once again the question --- what is the contingency plan? Rain check? Different hike? Zion isn't very flexible if plans change last minute....ya know?

[Amnesiac]

Hey, first post here, I love the forum...

Anyway, does anybody know how it is down around Leprechaun canyon? I'm supposed to take a group of scouts down there this weekend to do Leprechaun and Blarney and I want to make sure it's going to be okay before I make the drive down there. Thanks...

[Iceaxe]

I think you are getting your panties in a bunch a little early....

I also expect the Kolob Road to be repaired extremely fast. Lots of summer homes up that way.

Tonight: Scattered thunderstorms during the evening. Partly cloudy skies after midnight. Low 71F. Winds SW at 5 to 10 mph. Chance of rain 50%.

Friday: Sunny along with a few clouds. High 94F. Winds W at 10 to 15 mph. Generally clear overnight.

Saturday: Mix of sun and clouds. Highs in the low 90s and lows in the low 70s.

Sunday: Isolated thunderstorms. Highs in the low 90s and lows in the upper 60s.

Monday: Partly cloudy with a stray thunderstorm. Highs in the low 90s and lows in the upper 60s.

[CarpeyBiggs]

All I see is a bunch of lightning bolts...

Seriously though, why do they show storms in the graphic if it is only a 20 percent chance? Hopefully it will all blow over by tomorrow...