yankee doodle free at last

[oldno7]

from bolts--
Shane posted awhile ago mentioning the bolts were gone,we went through today hoping the recent St George flooding had added some water---NOT-no water still but no bolts either.
Shane--thank that bolt fairy for the removal if you get a chance.

[mrbrejcha]

[trackrunner]

Bump



someone posted over at the ACA that every downclimb has a bolt again

http://www.canyoneering.net/forums/s...?t=1665&page=4

Historical info on bolts in this canyon can be found in the above thread and here as well.

http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7497

WHAAAT???? Why in the hell would you bolt YD? You might as well bolt your steps on your front porch.

That blows my mind... The biggest downclimb is what, like 10 feet?

[rcwild]

Yankee Doodle Dumb Down .... AGAIN

If bolting a canyon is considered "dumbing it down", why are the guides who hold permits for Yankee Doodle bolting it?

Easy 6-12 foot down-climbs with stainless steel glue-ins? Very simple sequencing problems. Great opportunities to teach students and clients how to avoid bolts.

If the guides don't have the skills to take their students and clients through this easy little canyon without bolts, shouldn't they stay out? Maybe find easier canyons to do until they acquire the necessary skills?

Just askin'.

[moab mark]

Who guides it?

Mark

[ratagonia]

Who guides it?

Mark

We (ZAC) guide it, as does Zion Rock. But both of us like it without bolts, as it allows us to use it for a classroom in a somewhat less contrived manner. There are certainly no downclimbs that our guides cannot do easily.

Perhaps Rich has a suspect, but is polite enough to not accuse without hard evidence.

Tom

[oldno7]

There is another guide service out of St. George. Whether or not they have the permit's...
They have bolted in the past.
I'm somewhat free this week if someone want's to explore this neat-o canyon.
I hear it's dangerous
probably in need of chains and staircases.

[oldno7]

ahhh-- man..I can't go. I've never done a canyon with Shane, hence I'm still a noob. This canyon would surely be over my head. I'm just glad I recognized the error of my ways before it's too late.

[Iceaxe]

Just to keep the record straight and keep some from putting words in my mouth..... doing a canyon with me has no bearing what-so-ever on your 'official' canyoneer status.... I don't give out diplomas, merit badges or smiley face stickers. If you want to impress me just bring everyone back safe.

Or.... you can just call me cautious......

As for Yankee Doodle getting bolted all I can say is it saddens me, it's such an easy canyon and is a great classroom in its natural state. Perhaps the bolt removal fairy will grace us again with a visit. It would be nice to talk with whomever is bolting the route to see if a bolt war could be avoided.

[stefan]

can a canyon get a restraining order?

[smcqueen]

We did Yankee Doodle and Birch a couple of weeks ago. At that time, the only bolts we saw in Yankee Doodle were at the first rap. (I thought they looked old and somewhat corroded, but I am told that they are relatively new and the rusty look is from epoxy that was used to cover them.) I've been hearing over on the other group that bolts appeared in the canyon recently. Without bolts, it was a fun canyon. In addition to my son-in-law, who has been with me on numerous canyons, we had four noobs who enjoyed solving the problems at the shorter drops (downclimb, handline, improvised anchor, etc.). I guess, even if there are bolts there, they can be ignored, but there is always the tendency to short-circuit the thought process and just rig the rap if there is a bolt provided, needed or not.

Pix from our trip are at http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...6&l=c67cac4843

[oldno7]

Just to keep the record straight and keep some from putting words in my mouth..... doing a canyon with me has no bearing what-so-ever on your 'official' canyoneer status..:

I mis-understood:


Noob = Novice = Beginner = Newbie
I think of everyone as a noob until I have done a route or two with them

[Iceaxe]

Just to keep the record straight and keep some from putting words in my mouth..... doing a canyon with me has no bearing what-so-ever on your 'official' canyoneer status..:

I mis-understood:

Noob = Novice = Beginner = Newbie
I think of everyone as a noob until I have done a route or two with them

What I was trying to say is..... I don't trust a new partner until I have conyoneered with them and learned their actual skills. Call it erroring on the side of caution if you wish. I have no problem with a new partner approaching me with the same apprehension.

[Iceaxe]

can a canyon get a restraining order?

Sort of.... take a hammer and smash the hangers flat so they are unusable....

Sends the message loud and clear!

Only down side is you need to go back in a few months and clean up your mess.

[Skylinerider]

Am I missing something? Just don't use them if you don't like them.

[Don]

Am I missing something? Just don't use them if you don't like them.

Just hike in the city, a stairwell or hallway might seem slot-like and rappel off buildings if you need a steel anchor.

Do they still teach leave no trace in boy scouts?

[ratagonia]

Am I missing something?

About 10 years of animated debate and fractious discussion...



Tom

[Skylinerider]

Just hike in the city, a stairwell or hallway might seem slot-like and rappel off buildings if you need a steel anchor.

Do they still teach leave no trace in boy scouts?

Don't be a douche I was asking a serious question. I had no idea that bolts were such a contentious topic among canyoneers.

Tom, thank you for your answer.