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Thread: Knotted Rope Death

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by bruce from bryce
    an individual who had personal involvement with this couple. He was not impressed.
    I'd take one comment like that with a big grain of salt. Since that is not exactly what I'm hearing from other places. Not saying this couple was Daniel Boone, but they were not city slickers either.

    Also... one guys noob is anthers pro.....

    And things change a lot over time. Just imagine what my comments for Bruce would be if I based them only on my one experience, two years ago, when he was doing his first tech canyon? I'm not picking on Bruce, just making a point since he brought it up.


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  3. #42
    A few more details....

    Knoted Rope Canyon
    By Myrna Trauntvein
    Times-News Correspondent

    A couple from Mona, missing since Saturday night, were found at noon on Monday, however, the outcome was not happy.

    The couple was spending the weekend in the San Rafael Swell, but a falling accident while hiking claimed the life of Marie Coray, 58, who broke her arm while rappelling and got caught in a pool of water.

    Kimo and Marie Coray, both middle-aged, were experienced outdoor fans and had been on many camping, hiking and climbing excursions.

    Kimo Coray, who is the owner of Kimo
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #43
    Perhaps a bit off topic, but did anyone else recognize that most of that article is plagiarized? It is regurgitated from other news outlets... And, the picture they used is from Tom's webpage.... I guess it is Nephi, probably not a lot of staff at that paper.

    One source of quotes: http://stage-v2.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1491261

    Tom's picture:from his webpage.


    [quote]This is the San Rafael Swell

  5. #44
    I guess it's only fair they steal pictures from Tom's website since that was the route description the couple was using.....

    At least I assume that it was Tom's. I asked SAR if it was mine and was told it was the "other website".

    One good point was it appears the couple did use a check in person, check in time and left them with a route description. Since the husband became disoriented and lost this might have saved his life. So I guess that's at least three things they did right. That puts the couple about 10 points up the smart and experienced ladder over some groups.


  6. #45
    super sad
    all my condolences to the guy,
    but the below make me either more sad
    damn if my parents or somebody i care is not returning home as suppose to i will not wait 1 day and a half to call for a rescue.

    that remind again the importance of telling somebody where you plan to be and when you are suppose to be back.

    sad sad and more sad


    [quote=Iceaxe]A few more details....


    The search began early Sunday after the call was received from the Coray

  7. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by hesse15
    super sad
    damn if my parents or somebody i care is not returning home as suppose to i will not wait 1 day and a half to call for a rescue.
    Hesse has threatened me that if I miss a call-in, she will immediately post on the canyons group, uutah, and send an e-mail to Ice (and others that know me) stating I am lost and in need of help. These threats keep me in check. I would likely chew off an arm if need be to make a check-in and keep the "deserthiker is lost and needs help" distress call from going out....



    I often fudge some of the other "rules" (going solo, not ALWAYS wearing a helmet, etc..), but I go out of my way to do the check-ins. Often driving an hour or more from remote locations to do them. They are a simple way to insure you at least have help coming at some point.

    I think there would be nothing worse than being stuck somewhere with no hope that anyone knows where you are at. (ala Aaron Ralstone)

  8. #47
    I haven't had much experience with canyoneering yet, but with rafting I usually calculate what time I get off a river, then add an hour to pack and get to the cell reception to make a call to my wife. Then I leave all the emergency numbers for her and all the information she'd need to track me (Permit number, river name, put in/take out, etc). Iff I don't make a call by a specific time, I tell her to call SAR. Luckily, that hasn't happened yet, I did come very close once though.... by about 3 minutes she told me.

  9. #48
    Hey I just got an idea, what if we make a forum here for the Check In/Out to use for our members and to help each other. Since most of us know how to contact SAR and get help and explain what/where the excursion is taking place better than family members, it might just work out.

    I am thinking of a format such as a single post with the following info:

    Name:
    Cell phone number:
    Group Size:
    Destination:
    Start date/time:
    Scheduled finish date/time:
    Emergency family contact:
    Local SAR contact:

    Any thoughts/flames?

  10. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex
    Hey I just got an idea, what if we make a forum here for the Check In/Out to use for our members and to help each other. Since most of us know how to contact SAR and get help and explain what/where the excursion is taking place better than family members, it might just work out.

    I am thinking of a format such as a single post with the following info:

    Name:
    Cell phone number:
    Group Size:
    Destination:
    Start date/time:
    Scheduled finish date/time:
    Emergency family contact:
    Local SAR contact:

    Any thoughts/flames?
    One big problem with this: This is advertising to the world that you will be gone, and is inviting anyone to come rob your house in your absence.
    Epstein did not kill himself...



  11. #50
    Alex that will be a nice idea, but from personal experience lately , i do not think put personal information and phone number on the internet is a safe way to do, beside most of us know each other in person, and we overall are nice people , you never know who else is gotting these numbers.

    i have now some people numbers that i can call in case of an emergency and they can help getting the SAR to the right place.

    so we can do the same you suggest , but just keeping off public view and sending email to each other.


    by the way the day i sent the email to deserthiker: IN CASE I DIE... with 2 numbers of salt lake people that are italian/english speakers and 10 phone number of how to reach my parents or my brother oversea , he was a little perplex .

    but i still think is better to have these ready just in case , you know if i got struck by a lightening...


    Quote Originally Posted by Alex
    Hey I just got an idea, what if we make a forum here for the Check In/Out to use for our members and to help each other. Since most of us know how to contact SAR and get help and explain what/where the excursion is taking place better than family members, it might just work out.

    I am thinking of a format such as a single post with the following info:

    Name:
    Cell phone number:
    Group Size:
    Destination:
    Start date/time:
    Scheduled finish date/time:
    Emergency family contact:
    Local SAR contact:

    Any thoughts/flames?

  12. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex
    Hey I just got an idea, what if we make a forum here for the Check In/Out to use for our members and to help each other.
    Not that I don't like you guys a bunch..... but I don't trust replying on an internet forum for my safety. I usually leave my info with my wife or father. I have no doubt those two will move heaven and earth if I fail to make a check in.


  13. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by rockgremlin
    One big problem with this: This is advertising to the world that you will be gone, and is inviting anyone to come rob your house in your absence.


    although i do agree w/ what your saying Justin (i too hate webcasting when i'll be gone and leaving the wife home alone) perhaps we should get a smaller "members" group list
    include only those who we've done routes w/ etc... keep it on the Down low or off the general web.
    i'm backing the idea, as it would be nice to have for my wife in the event that i do something stupid or otherwise...


    i have to admit Ryan, a "Deserthiker rescue" would definately trump a red tail hawk any day. we'd deninately get some milage out ot that one

  14. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by marc olivares
    i have to admit Ryan, a "Deserthiker rescue" would definately trump a red tail hawk any day. we'd deninately get some milage out ot that one
    I think a Deserthiker rescue would be easier.... just put a bag over his head and lead him out.

  15. #54
    Snatch, pretty brilliant--I am not SAR so please refrain from jumping all over my ass, but what about this modification...the person being rescued then can lean into the wall and not use the broken arm...

    the rescuer can tie off two strands of rope off his harness carabiner--tie a loop in each end and lower the two ends into the pothole forming an upside down V. The rescuee can slip a foot into each loop. The rescuer ties two prussiks onto harness belay loop. As the rescuee steps in one loop and weights it, the rescuer can slowly pull up the other end/loop a little, say two feet and adjust the prussik. The rescuee then weights the other side and steps up, the prussik tightens and they readjut the other end/loop in the same manner thus crawling up the rope until a hand pull can top them out.

    Adrian

  16. #55
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Nothing like field testing...

    Quote Originally Posted by adrians
    Snatch, pretty brilliant--I am not SAR so please refrain from jumping all over my ass, but what about this modification...the person being rescued then can lean into the wall and not use the broken arm...

    the rescuer can tie off two strands of rope off his harness carabiner--tie a loop in each end and lower the two ends into the pothole forming an upside down V. The rescuee can slip a foot into each loop. The rescuer ties two prussiks onto harness belay loop. As the rescuee steps in one loop and weights it, the rescuer can slowly pull up the other end/loop a little, say two feet and adjust the prussik. The rescuee then weights the other side and steps up, the prussik tightens and they readjut the other end/loop in the same manner thus crawling up the rope until a hand pull can top them out.

    Adrian
    Try it next time you are out, see how it works.

    Tom

  17. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex
    Hey I just got an idea,
    Alex, that's the seed of a great idea. If there were a secure way to house the info such that a limited group of people had access....what a great tool that could be. Execution and thoughtful organization would be key.

  18. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by hank moon
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex
    Hey I just got an idea,
    Alex, that's the seed of a great idea. If there were a secure way to house the info such that a limited group of people had access....what a great tool that could be. Execution and thoughtful organization would be key.
    We could possibly do it with the help of the admins. Basically if you want to belong to the group of "help the uutah member", you'd fill out an app (which we can come up by ourselves) and then the admins would give the rights to the specially designed forum for approved members only.

    But I see how some folks wouldn't want their private info to be out there. I guess we can rely back on the old ways of notifying the family members.

  19. #58

    Re: Canyon Rescue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe
    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia
    Sounds like you're looking for a "Canyon Rescue" class.
    Oh I have a few ideas for what I would have done..... And I'm pretty sure my number one option is not in the redheads book..... I mean if he actually had a book.

    I am curious to hear what options others would have used before tainting the waters with my thoughts.

    I consider these "what if's" to be excellent training.


    Hmmmm?! Lot seems to depend on the "gear" available?
    Piggyback a haul system (Fashioned from the "Purcell Prusik System" I always carry through a canyon) or build a system out of the rope being used to descend?

    Descend on anchored rope...prusik high...2:1 system...hoist her "counterbalance" on the 2:1 with a change of direction with a capture "ratchet" prusik on her harness.....reset the "high" prusik and start again? 2:1 not cutting it? Too much friction? 4:1 with change of direction maybe?

    Carabiners have about a 60-65% effeciency, so any haul system built is better served using minimal carabiners as "Pulleys".

    Most effecient use would be a compound 9:1 using 4 carabiners (about a 5.4 MA effeciency) and hauling from up top. This system would require 3 prusiks and 4 carabiners. Again the purcell prusik system would supply all the material necessary to build the system minus 3 carabiners. Granted...if there is little working space up top...there may be many resets, but if it saves a life..who cares!

  20. #59

    Re: Canyon Rescue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bo_Beck

    Hmmmm?! Lot seems to depend on the "gear" available?
    Usually folks descending Knotted Rope are carrying a minimum of gear. A short rope (60'), harness, belay device, a little webbing and a couple of biners are pretty much standard. I usually toss in a couple of hooks just for a situation like this.

    Knotted Rope is not a canyon that requires much gear in normal conditions. Highly skilled canyoneers can even do the canyon without gear.....
    .

  21. #60

    Re: Canyon Rescue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe
    Quote Originally Posted by Bo_Beck

    Hmmmm?! Lot seems to depend on the "gear" available?
    Usually folks descending Knotted Rope are carrying a minimum of gear. A short rope (60'), harness, belay device, a little webbing and a couple of biners are pretty much standard. I usually toss in a couple of hooks just for a situation like this.

    Knotted Rope is not a canyon that requires much gear in normal conditions. Highly skilled canyoneers can even do the canyon without gear.....
    .
    And folks have always wondered what I carry in my BIG pack! Well...I guess that with just a couple biners and webbing it'll be a bit more strain hauling on a simple 3:1

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