canyoneering ethical question

[marc olivares]

While romping through Zero Gravity on Sunday, we ran into a little ethical dilemma
and i was curious what others would do in this same situation.

as the canyon narrowed (just before the big pothole for those who have done Zero G) we scrambled over a small chock stone and Shane starts squealing like a little girl (ok, like a manly little girl... )
i was pulling up the rear, so i howler to him WTF, you ok? and he says " there's a huge eagle down here".

Seems an eagle had gotten down into the narrow section of the canyon and could not get out. what was unknown to us was whether or not the eagle was injured or simply stuck in a canyon so narrow it was unable to open it's wings out enough to fly.

so here's the dilemma: What do we do now?

do you stem over the eagle and hope it doesnt come after you?
do you abort the canyon?
do you rescue the eagle?
do you try and put the thing out of it's misery? (still undetermined if injured or not, but it can walk)

for the record, this was one huge bird, and it scared me just being as close as we were to it.
unfortunately, the 1 photo i got of it really, really sucks
i know what we did, how would you handle this?

[Scott P]

do you rescue the eagle?

That's what I would do, but I'm a nice guy.

[marc olivares]

do you rescue the eagle?

That's what I would do, but I'm a nice guy.

expand on this scott... how?

[Udink]

I think I'd have tried shooing the eagle away to see if it could escape the narrow bit by itself (I sure as hell wouldn't try getting too close though). Failing that, I'd stem over it, finish the canyon, and inform the DWR or some other responsible agency of its condition and location.

[Scott P]

expand on this scott... how?

I haven't done the canyon, so I don't know how the situation is. Did you have a rope with you for a lasso? I assume slings?

Is the canyon wide enough for a lasso. I know my dad and company have actually lassoed deer and coyotes out of potholes, but you have to have enough room.

[rockgremlin]

I think I'd have tried shooing the eagle away to see if it could escape the narrow bit by itself (I sure as hell wouldn't try getting too close though). Failing that, I'd stem over it, finish the canyon, and inform the DWR or some other responsible agency of its condition and location.

ditto

[Alex]

This should clear up the condition that the eagle was in....

The canyon was about 1.5-2 feett across, enough to squeeze through without taking the backpack off. The eagle was about 4-5 feet below us behind the chock stone and in the tigher spot (about a foot across). There was no way to get to the bird to hand rescue it without human injury.

[rockgremlin]

Maybe he was just canyoneering too.


So what did you guys do?

[Alex]

So what did you guys do?

...let the nature do it's best. We backpedaled, climbed out of the canyon and rapped on the other side of the keeper pothole. The decision was mutual among the leaders to avoid the human injury. Self safety is first in my opinion.

[marc olivares]

...So what did you guys do?

Alex spilled the beans to quickly, what he meant to say was:

"it's amazing how many thing taste like chicken..."



ok playing devils advocate here, Scott how does one unlasso a very large, now very pissed off eagle without human injury?

[Scott P]

Scott how does one unlasso a very large, now very pissed off eagle without human injury?

That's a good question especially in a confined space. They used to catch condors (much bigger than eagles) with lasso, so I guess it can be done, but you would have to know what you were doing. Let Shane try first. Bag it might be too risky unless it was totally exhasted. Looks too narrow to lasso anyway.

Anyway, looks like you made the right call. Too bad for the eagle; hopefully it gets out of there.

[Alex]

Alex spilled the beans to quickly, what he meant to say was:

Sorry marc, didn't mean to blow the cover.

[Iceaxe]

We were not able to shoo the eagle out (we tried that one). The keeper pothole had him trapped from below and overhanging chokestones had him trapped from above (we believe). The eagle was in a section of slot where he could walk 20' from the upper chokestones to the lower keeper.

Damn he was a big bird, You don't realize how big an eagle is until one jumps out from under the chokestone you are standing on top of. And yes I screamed.... but I like to think it was just a high pitched manly scream....

We considered trying to lift the eagle out but no way in hell was anyone getting near those talons of his.

[hesse15]

this must be the season
we saw 5 baby crows (20pounds each) in neon ,next weekend 1 baby crow in black hole, and the weekend after one baby howl (6 pounds) out to camp close to moab middle of nowwhere.
so that must be a baby eagle kicked out to learn how to fly.
I got the same dilemma when we got the first crow in neon.
with little creatures i usually put them in my sweater meanwhile i downclimb (lizard and chipmonk) but bigger animal are more problematic.
i think the best is trow a sort of sweater /blanket on top and try to grab them in a way that they do not bite
a baby eagle can be pretty big and intimidating

i do not get the spot where it was but if you can get 2 people off the deck solid a third can be lower down from them and get to the animal in a
safe way
i think consedering that an eagle is protected and risk of extinction , will be worthed a try

We were not able to shoo the eagle out (we tried that one). The keeper pothole had him trapped from below and overhanging chokestones had him trapped from above (we believe). The eagle was in a section of slot where he could walk 20' from the upper chokestones to the lower keeper.

Damn he was a big bird, You don't realize how big an eagle is until one jumps out from under the chokestone you are standing on top of. And yes I screamed.... but I like to think it was just a high pitched manly scream....

We considered trying to lift the eagle out but no way in hell was anyone getting near those talons of his.

[marc olivares]

...a baby eagle can be pretty big and intimidating...

Cri,
this was no "baby" eagle, that would have been a different situation, i think...?
this was a full grown, very pissed off eagle

[Iceaxe]

so that must be a baby eagle kicked out to learn how to fly.

This was no baby eagle, it was a full grown adult. I'm guessing he stood 2' tall and had a wing span of 6'.... and his talons looked lethal.

[Alex]

We threw rocks at it to try to have it move down the slot for us to be lowered and do something about it, but the damn bird did NOT move at all. I mean not even a slight movement. When Ice threw a small rock right at it, it lifted it's leg for the rock to fall through. I think a baby eagle would have jumped/moved to avoid a flying object, this beast just sat there in a staring contest with us. And yes, he definitely won that contest, 4 big guys backed down and went around.

[CarpeyBiggs]

We threw rocks at it....

So much for an ethical dilemma, eh? Nothing like stoning a helpless eagle.

"Dude, Ice, use this rock, it's huge man. I guarantee it'll scare the shit outta that dumbass eagle."

This picture is starting to get more and more clear.

[Alex]

Truth be told, we couldn't find a big enough rock to put it out of its misery!

[Iceaxe]

We threw rocks at it to try to have it move down the slot

We threw small pebbles.... and after I bounced one off his back and he didn't fly or run away we went to Plan B.

Actually after I bounced one off his back he looked at me like I might make a nice snack if I didn't move along to Plan B.