das boot question

[Stick]

I am planning on going through Das Boot & the Subway this weekend. Is Das Boot the same thing that Kelsey calls Upper Great West Canyon his his guide?

On Tom's web page about Das Boot he rates it pretty hard. Kelsey and Shane give it a lower difficulty rating. Anyone comments would be appreciated.

[tanya]

I am planning on going through Das Boot & the Subway this weekend. Is Das Boot the same thing that Kelsey calls Upper Great West Canyon his his guide?

On Tom's web page about Das Boot he rates it pretty hard. Kelsey and Shane give it a lower difficulty rating. Anyone comments would be appreciated.

I did not think Das Boot was hard. I thought it was one of the most enjoyable canyons I have done.

Bo's Trail Description for Das Boot

http://www.zionnational-park.com/zion-das-boot.htm

[shaggy125]

Kelseys description covers the entire left fork from from where Wildcat Canyon comes in. The left fork includes an upper slot with 4 or 5 rappels and what Kelsey calls a possible keeper pothole (but I've never heard of anyone having trouble getting out of it with anything more than partner assist). Then the canyon kind of opens but is still "slotty" just maybe 15 or 20 feet wide instead of 3 - 5 like the upper slot. If it's full of water there are LOTS of swims and it's VERY beautiful. Next you come to a lower slot, this is what Tom and Shane call Das Boot. The entire Das Boot section can be downclimbed by the skilled but most will have to at least rappel the last drop. After the last drop you enter the standard Subway route. If you are in shape, experienced and can move quick then the full left fork is a wonderful, but very full day (it wouldn't be so nice if it is dry). If you like to take your time or take a lot of breaks etc... then the Das Boot route is better as the full left fork would be a monster day if you don't just cruise through it.

Eric.

[Iceaxe]

The entire Das Boot section can be downclimbed by the skilled

Careful giving out beta like this.... because you are assuming the big log was not washed out.... and one day it will wash out.

Just food for thought.

[shaggy125]

Careful giving out beta like this.... because you are assuming the big log was not washed out.... and one day it will wash out.

Just food for thought.

Good point, always take a rope just in case. Even in the Black Hole or the standard Subway route it's a good idea to have a rope along.

[Scott P]

On Tom's web page about Das Boot he rates it pretty hard. Kelsey and Shane give it a lower difficulty rating.

Pretty typical among all guidebook or website authors.

Sometimes it can be attributed to conditions, but I've noticed this with other canyons as well, though they all seem to agree on the difficulty of canyons like Heaps or Imaly.

On the flip side, I'm noticed that Tom's recommended times to complete a route are often faster than Kelsey's or Shane's.

Best thing to do is to get a "feel" for each author's books/website and adjust the percieved difficulty ratings and hike times and adjust them to your own.

Is Das Boot the same thing that Kelsey calls Upper Great West Canyon his his guide?

Yes and no. Kelsey's desciption covers "Das Boot", but Das Boot itself is a shorter version of "Upper Great West Canyon" route in Kelsey's book.

[Scott Card]

On Tom's web page about Das Boot he rates it pretty hard. Kelsey and Shane give it a lower difficulty rating. Anyone comments would be appreciated.

Cold, cold, cold. That water is very cold year around, maybe the coldest I remember of any canyon there. I remember with one group coming into the sun and just steaming. It is not often that you can see your breath in Southern Utah in the summer but one time in Das boot we could. To me that is the very real danger of this fun little stretch of canyon. It is a great addition for canyoneers to add to the Subway. Are folks still using that rotting stump for the last rap? Hopefully there is something new there since I last went through a couple of years ago.