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Thread: Good Rappelling

  1. #21
    it all makes more sense , I thought BSA was some kind of guide service. LOL

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  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech
    It's too bad we can't just say "thanks for the videos, looks like you had fun.
    Sure, and as a younger feller, would have been easy to just waltz on by and figure that sooner or later, someone would get into trouble but no biggie, just Darwin and all.

    I look at the situation from the standpoint of, what if I end up climbing with a person who learned to rappel like that? There'd be no way I'd let anyone on a rope or gear of mine that'd mistreat it that way (not to mention their own personal safety). Puts everyone at risk.

    Certainly don't mean to come across as too judgemental, or holier than thou, but, if you're teaching folks...well, that somehow in my mind deserves a bit more scrutiny and a comment if it ain't right.

    So....thanks for the videos! Maybe we all can learn something from them...

    -Brian in SLC

  4. #23
    Well
    I guess this is a good place for me to just say Good-By I have enough problems in my life I don't need any of you ragging on me.
    Thanks to every one who has been so much fun and helpful here.
    See you on the trail
    Scout Master
    See you on the Trail

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Scout Master
    I guess this is a good place for me to just say Good-By I have enough problems in my life I don't need any of you ragging on me.
    This is exactly the situation we try hardest to avoid here on the forum. We've lost several good, contributing members from uutah.com, and I hate it.

  6. #25
    This situation could have been handled differently, perhaps with a much better outcome than Scout Master signing off. Dommage.

    hank

  7. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by hank moon
    This situation could have been handled differently, perhaps with a much better outcome than Scout Master signing off. Dommage.
    Ya ya...heavy sigh...

    I hate to come across as a big meany, poking a fork in someone's eye...

    And I sure as heck don't spend my time doing something as unselfish as teaching many folks about anything, much less outdoorsy stuff...

    I'm no good.

    Wait a second Hank...I thought YOU were the safety nazi...

    Redemption for me? Ahhh.....I think not...

    Shoot, if that video woulda been posted in the "sport rappelling" forum, I'd have never seen it...

    -Brian in SLC

  8. #27
    Bogley BigShot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scout Master
    Well
    I guess this is a good place for me to just say Good-By I have enough problems in my life I don't need any of you ragging on me.
    Thanks to every one who has been so much fun and helpful here.
    See you on the trail
    Scout Master

    I have been busy and have not had time to read stuff lately....

    But don't go!!!!!!

    I would MISS YOU!!!!

  9. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Scout Master
    Well
    I guess this is a good place for me to just say Good-By I have enough problems in my life I don't need any of you ragging on me.
    Thanks to every one who has been so much fun and helpful here.
    See you on the trail
    Scout Master
    Scoutmaster, don't take it wrong! I had a problem with the BSA Certification Guidlines when they were first presented, until I realized that they were for an indemnity purpose.

    When I first got involved with Zion on the SAR Team 11 years ago, some of the things that we were doing seemed TOTALLY ridiculous to me! The redundancy was overwhelming, but now I adhere to the techniques (mostly!) like a fly on s#$+! The park has ongoing litigation from many incidents and its much simpler to have a standard that is part of the program, rather than try to explain each time something questionable.

    I did not see the videos, and furthermore it's not my place to ridicule someone else. I would hope that constructive critisizm is a learning tool rather than an "obstruction". Stick around and we can all learn and have fun!

    Bo

  10. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Scout Master
    Well
    I guess this is a good place for me to just say Good-By I have enough problems in my life I don't need any of you ragging on me.
    ...
    I think there has been a bit of misinterpretation and overreaction here. First point is, I think it is good that people are willing to take the time and make the effort to introduce climbing and rappelling to young people. But the second point is that when you are working with youth who are not your own kids, you take on a very large responsibility to teach them in a safe environment. When you teach them under the auspices of Boy Scouts of America, you are obligated to follow the guidelines they have developed and laid out over the past decade or so. These guidelines were developed in response to the large and increasing amount of climbing and rappelling activity that has been going on in scouting organizations for many years (I and many friends and climbing partners were introduced to climbing 50 years ago in the scouting context), along with a number of accidents, some fatal, some resulting in lifelong disabilities, that involved major lawsuits. The people involved in the accidents as instructors had all had lots of experience with climbing. So a long hard look was taken, and the guidelines developed. The goal is safety (and that means reduction or elimination of the accidents, and the lawsuits). A secondary goal is that everyone plays by the same book and is on the same page.

    Some people consider that the guidelines are overly cautious. But keep in mind that when instructing youth in this program, you are taking on the responsibility of someone else's kids. Are you ready to explain why they got seriously injured or killed on your watch? As often pointed out, kids will be kids, and especially boys will be boys. If you have a group of them, there will be rough-housing and a short attention span, and one or two that want to wander off because they are bored waiting their turn.

    It is also important to keep in mind that BSA does not teach youth (or adults) to climb or rappel - they introduce people to climbing and rappelling. That's the same thing as with the merit badges - they introduce the youth to hobbies, potential careers, and so on. The First Aid MB provides basic first aid, for example, it does not make someone an EMT, or even a First Responder. Hopefully, this will inspire the youth to continue on to do more in whatever area. It will not make a youth an expert climber, ready to take on El Cap or the Grand.

    My purpose in posting was to provide a wake-up call that if someone is going to teach youth to climb and rappel, a very worthy and noble undertaking, there is an added responsibility, and if it is going to be in the context of Boy Scouts of America, there are guidelines that must be followed. If the guidelines are followed, BSA provides insurance and legal help (pretty important in our litigious society). If not, you leave yourself wide open to suits that may be based on real or imagined negligence (or an imagined "wrong touch").

    The great thing about introducing youth (both male and female in the Venturing and Exploring programs) is that it provides a challenge, and can boost self-esteem and self-confidence, yet in a safe manner with a minimum of risk as long as the guidelines are followed.

    Again, whatever you want to do with your buddies or your own kids is up to you. But when you are purporting to work with youth under BSA auspices, you need to follow their guidelines and rules.

  11. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by jumar View Post
    I don't know the davis/weber county area very well. If you're down in SL or Utah County I could help more.

    If you don't mind a drive, I always liked Echo Canyon for rappelling.
    Where in Echo canyon?

  12. #31
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAWtrails View Post
    Where in Echo canyon?
    I dunno about Echo Canyon itself, but just a few miles south of the canyon just north of Coalville has a good ledge and some overhangs that range from 40-80 feet or so. Been there a couple times. Especially in the summer as you can go to Echo Reservoir afterwards and swim around.




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  13. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by RAWtrails View Post
    Where in Echo canyon?
    Nothing like replying to a 12 year old post....

  14. #33
    Somewhere near Echo, but towards Evanston, is a place called "poopers point", where people go Ski BASE jumping. I look for it every time I pass through, I think I've seen it. There would be some great rappelling there, maybe 200 feet.

    Here's a video of the area


  15. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    Nothing like replying to a 12 year old post....
    Wow, Bogley turned 15 years old. Time flies. I guess we've gotta change that logo.

    Not bad for a dying site that should be dying every year.

  16. #35
    Iím slow to the party... yeah Iíve driven by that spot. That pic is rad. #revivethepost


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  17. Likes Sombeech liked this post
  18. #36
    Ive just had friends ask of good places to practice rappelling in the salt lake area. I donít want to send them off to do canyons/waterfalls til they know what theyíre doing.

    Ogden 9th St crag. Peteís Rock. Battle Creek. Red ledges. Any others super accessible and straightforward?


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