Mormon Church Objects to Angel T-Shirt

[Mtnman1830]

Mormon Church Objects to Angel T-Shirt
By Associated Press
Sat Mar 24, 2:55 AM

TAYLORSVILLE, Utah - For a coffee shop, T-shirts of a Mormon angel with java flowing into his trumpet are selling well. But they don't have the blessing of religious leaders.

The shirts have upset the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Not only is Moroni a revered figure _ Mormons believe he appeared to church founder Joseph Smith _ but LDS members are discouraged from drinking coffee.

The shirts show the angel Moroni, a male figure in a robe blowing a trumpet. The trumpet is turned up at an angle as coffee is poured in.

"They've been the best-selling T-shirts we've ever done," said Just Add Coffee co-owner Ed Beazer.

The church informed Beazer that the angel's image is a registered trademark.

"If they provide proof, we're going to comply," Beazer said. "We don't want to break any laws or anything."

Just Add Coffee put the image on greeting cards about a year ago and started selling the shirts before Christmas. Moroni also appeared in ads that caught the church's attention.

Church spokesman Scott Trotter said the image is a trademark.

"It was a spoof," Beazer said. "It was meant to be fun."


I want one!!

[Rev. Coyote]

Moron - i

I'm just sayin...

[stefan]

oh boy

[HEADHUNTER]

Moron - i

I'm just sayin...

So you are saying you're a moron or just act like one?

Hello - it's a trademark - if you owned one, you'd probably want it stopped as well.

[DiscGo]

The LDS church is "incorporated" and the Angel Moroni is a trademark symbol. Show me a corporation who doesn't care about their trademarks.



Not to mention mixing Coffee with Mormons is like mixing beef with Hindus or Pork with Muslims.

[stefan]

The LDS church is "incorporated" and the Angel Moroni is a trademark symbol. Show me a corporation who doesn't care about their trademarks.



Not to mention mixing Coffee with Mormons is like mixing beef with Hindus or Pork with Muslims.

i thought it was warm bevereges?

why doesn't hot chocolate fall under the warm beverage category?


as far as trade marks, i suppose there is a certain degree of change that can be applied to a trademark whereby it is technically legal to produce it. T-shirt companies for years have been manipulating the names and characteristic form of company logos ... since these are sold legally it would seem that it is legal to do so ... or is it? (i don't exactly know).

[DiscGo]

why doesn't hot chocolate fall under the warm beverage category?

You are right that the actual scripture we use warns against "warm beverages" but it is interpreted as Tea, & Coffee. Largely (I believe) because of chemicals in them.

The whole "no coffee, tea, alcohol, drugs, tobacco" is known as the "Word of Wisdom". It wasn't originally considered "mandatory" for Mormons but eventually a decree went out that Mormons should abstain from "these vices". (Coffee & Tea were the only hot drinks mentioned, and nobody complained it wasn't more).

T-shirt companies for years have been manipulating the names and characteristic form of company logos ... since these are sold legally it would seem that it is legal to do so ... or is it? (i don't exactly know).

Yeah, you're right again. There is a McDonald's shirt that says Marijuana with their font (making it look like a McDonald's shirt) and there is the "Cocaine" shirt that looks like Coca Cola. I really do not know where the line is on that one.

[Cirrus2000]

The LDS church is "incorporated" and the Angel Moroni is a trademark symbol. Show me a corporation who doesn't care about their trademarks.

Hmm, religion as (unabashedly) big business. Interesting.

You know, a little more progressive trademark laws in the 16th century, and the Catholic Church could have avoided that whole messy Reformation thing...

[Scott P]

T-shirt companies for years have been manipulating the names and characteristic form of company logos ...

Not only t-shirt companies. Hey, where's Sombeech?



Anyway, I don't think the LDS Church is going to make that big of deal about the T-shirt thing. I've seen far worse and even on TV as well.

The LDS are generally thicker skinned than that and far worse has happened. At least the above is a joke instead of an intentional misrepresentation of the LDS Church.

Still, I guess if it is illegal to use the trademark, the t-shirt company should not be using it.

[DiscGo]

You know, a little more progressive trademark laws in the 16th century, and the Catholic Church could have avoided that whole messy Reformation thing...

Good call!

[Mtnman1830]

I think the shirt is funny, and if I can get my grubby hands on one, I would wear it with pride.

Anyone in the area want to pick me one up? I am too lazy to fight the freeway traffic to SLC just for a shirt.

[Rev. Coyote]

Moron - i

I'm just sayin...

So you are saying you're a moron or just act like one?

Hello - it's a trademark - if you owned one, you'd probably want it stopped as well.

AHA! So the Mormon Church is a major industry? Then let's yank tax-exempt status. Fair enough?

I'm just sayin...

[Rev. Coyote]

I think the shirt is funny, and if I can get my grubby hands on one, I would wear it with pride.

Anyone in the area want to pick me one up? I am too lazy to fight the freeway traffic to SLC just for a shirt.

I like my Polygamy Porter shirt. Always gets a great reaction here in the east.

[gonzo]

IANAL, but I believe that this would fall under parody, which could be considered fair use: http://www.publaw.com/parody.html

Furthermore, I can't imagine anyone looking at that shirt and confusing it with a product of the LDS church. (Which is the standard basis for trademark infringement).

[Brian in SLC]

i thought it was warm bevereges?
why doesn't hot chocolate fall under the warm beverage category?

Here it is:

***********
1 A Word of Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion
2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days
3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.
4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation
5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
8 And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man
11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.
12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.
14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground
17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;
19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;
20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.
21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Doctrine_and_Covenants/Section_89"
*******************

Its an interesting list of "stuff".

Lets see. Hunting? Nope, not allowed. Ain't no famine.

Hot drinks? I think this comes from the early 1800's as hot drinks were considered excess and wasteful. Applied to all hot drinks back then, methinks.

And, I fully support the mild drink made from barley!

Ain't gonna touch that herb reference...

Valley Tan anyone? Brigham Young's whiskey...

-Brian in SLC

[gonzo]

7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

Am I reading that correctly? Is the D&C advising me to bathe in whiskey?

[stefan]

1 A Word of Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion
5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

so do mormons drink wine during any sacramental rituals? what does the phrase "offer up your sacraments before him" precisely refer to?

9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

i'll never understand this one, so i am not going to even try.

[price1869]

why doesn't hot chocolate fall under the warm beverage category?

You are right that the actual scripture we use warns against "warm beverages" but it is interpreted as Tea, & Coffee. Largely (I believe) because of chemicals in them.

Wrong. It's not the chemicals, it's the obedience. Sometimes God doesn't give us a reason, but he asks us to obey on faith. That's why cafeine isn't necessarily against the WOW. And if God says so, who are we to argue.

As far as clarification goes . . . . nevermind, I'm not going to try to convince Osama that the US is a good place. I'm not going to try to convince anyone that the Mormons are okay. Just keep your attacks to a minimum please. We have a lot bigger arsenal backing us up.

[stefan]

Wrong. It's not the chemicals, it's the obedience. Sometimes God doesn't give us a reason, but he asks us to obey on faith. That's why cafeine isn't necessarily against the WOW. And if God says so, who are we to argue.

this is the argument i have frequently heard ... and moreover that it's possible god knows of something not obvious.

as far as arguing with god ... isn't there some level of interpretation? i mean, god didn't spell out in detail, everything that was okay and everything that wasn't okay. caffeinated sodas weren't in existence at the time either ... isn't it possible that he would have included those? [i know it's not exactly condoned]

i am, of course, not trying to attack. i just wondered how one understands the rules.

question: then what's the rule of thumb? black, white and green teas are out, but herbal teas are okay? is this spelled out anywhere? or are all teas, like soda, in the not condoned category?

just curious

[Iceaxe]

Sometimes God doesn't give us a reason, but he asks us to obey on faith.

That's exactly how my grand pappy explained it to me