Hatch and Fiddler Cove Canyons

[Scott P]

Our latest adventure was a trip to the very remote Hatch and Fiddler Cove Canyons in South East Utah last weekend (february 16-19). Our route was class 3+. Two of my brothers, one of my brother

[stefan]

adorable scott! thanks for sharing!

it warms my heart to think of how much of wild and scenic utah kessler will experience during the magic years of his life

[price1869]

Nice.

Get those kids out as much as you can before the earth is taken away by the liberals or destroyed by the conservatives.

I'm serious . . .

[goofball]

nice.

hatch and fiddler cove have been on my list for quit3e awhile. the whole dirty devil from head to foot would be an amazing trip. i would totally take a month off and wander it if i had thte opportunity. incredible area...

[Alex]

Wow very cool Scott, that looks like a fun trip with the kids. I need to do more technical stuff with my 3 year old..

Scott where is this place at?

[asdf]

Thanks for sharing, I always look forward to your trip reports.
Kessler is one amazing kid.

[Sombeech]

Cool shot

[jumar]

Awesome! I can't wait until my son is old enough to do adventures with me. He's only 3 months right now. LOL

We've been taking my nephew since he could walk on a lot of our stuff.

[ratagonia]

Whatzzup with the dogs, Scott? That's kinda deep wilderness to be bringing dogs into. Not cool.

Tom

[Udink]

Whatzzup with the dogs, Scott? That's kinda deep wilderness to be bringing dogs into. Not cool.

Oh, the HORROR. Actually, wait a minute, I don't get it. Taking dogs out in the middle of nowhere is taboo?

[Iceaxe]

I'm guessing Tom is more of a cat person

[rockgremlin]

Well, since it was deep wilderness, the dogs were a necessity -- to protect them from the lions and tigers and bears...oh my!

[stefan]

there are many issues with the effects dogs have in the wilderness, in particular the deeper wilderness.

scott been very critical of steve allen for bringing a dog(s) into the wilderness ...

[Iceaxe]

there are many issues with the effects dogs have in the wilderness, in particular the deeper wilderness.

Just curious.... other then being annoying what are the issues?

[rockgremlin]

there are many issues with the effects dogs have in the wilderness, in particular the deeper wilderness.

Just curious.... other then being annoying what are the issues?

Ya, I'm curious too. What's the difference between dog poop and pee, and coyote poop and pee?

[Udink]

there are many issues with the effects dogs have in the wilderness

Regardless of that, I just think it's odd how Tom comes in here saying "Tsk tsk tsk" and waving his finger without knowing how responsible Scott's party may or may not have been with the dogs. Judging from the pictures, they were on-leash and under control at all times. No matter what your opinion is regarding bringing dogs into the wilderness, surely it's possible to be responsible while doing so?

[rockgremlin]

I don't think it's odd at all...Tom likes to stir the pot.

[stefan]

there are many issues with the effects dogs have in the wilderness, in particular the deeper wilderness.

Just curious.... other then being annoying what are the issues?

well, i am sure scott can list of a billion, since he has an incredible wealth of information.

one of the issues he has presented with respect to steve allen is that taking dogs into remote wilderness can drive away other animals, in particular the bighorn sheep, as there is evidence that even the scent of a dog on a bighorn sheep trail, for example, can be cause for the sheep to abandon its use.


a few that i know of are (1) that some (clearly not all) dogs will chase and /or bark at other animals, eg. deer, sheep (2) dogs can muck up precious water sources in the wilderness. dogs can contract giardia from eating animal feces and are capable of spreading it, contaminating water sources through defication. (3) dogs can impact archeological sites either by force or by urination.

i am sure there are others ... while i think these issues are important in general, they are even more imporant to avoid in the deeper wilderness.

[stefan]

okay a simple google search brought this page up. i don't know how reliable of a source it is but ...

http://tchester.org/srp/lists/dogs.html


Disease Transmission. Dogs can apparently transmit a number of pathogens to wildlife:

* Parvovirus affects other canines, and was the source for wolf pup mortality in Glacier National Park area in the early 1990s.
* Muscle cysts (Sarcocystis spp.) can affect ungulates like deer and elk.
* Leptospirosis is a bacterial disease that affects the kidneys and urinary tract of most species of mammals.
* Parasites such as ticks, keds, tapeworms, and fleas are well-known problems in dogs that can be passed to other wildlife.

Many of these pathogens are transmitted through the abundant feces that dogs leave on any trail


Direct Predation. Even though my experience is that dogs are rarely successful in catching the many birds and squirrels they chase, dogs occasionally directly kill wildlife, or injure the wildlife enough to cause their subsequent death.

Packs of dogs are much more efficient hunters, and have been known to kill livestock. This is such a problem that many states have laws authorizing farmers and ranchers to kill any dogs found on their property annoying their livestock.

Dogs roaming off trail can trample vegetation, and if dogs are numerous they can remove the vegetation in popular areas by trampling, scratching and digging. Trampling is the major effect of hikers and their pets to plants.

Indirect Predation. Even when dogs are unsuccessful in catching the object of their chase, the potential prey has had to expend significant energy in order to save their life. Since in many cases animals are just barely surviving, expenditure of extra energy may push them over the edge to malnutrition and allow other predators to kill them. In particular, pregnant wildlife and newborn animals do not have the reserves to repeatedly expend in avoiding dogs.

[stefan]

DOG IN CEDAR MESA:

here is an excerpt from this page
http://www.blm.gov/utah/monticello/cedarmesa.htm


DOGS
You can bring your dog into most of the canyons, but you should know that the opportunity to hike with dogs in the Cedar Mesa Canyons could be lost. Due to numerous visitor complaints and concerns regarding dogs, the BLM is considering banning dogs from all Cedar Mesa canyons. How well you manage your dog in the canyons today will bear directly on the future of this privilege.

CEDAR MESA PET STIPULATIONS
Dogs must be leashed at all times.
Pets are not allowed in Grand Gulch below Collins Canyon or in Slickhorn.
Pets are not allowed in alcoves, or in cultural sites.
Pets are not allowed to swim or play in springs, pot holes or other natural water sources (you and I drink this water).
Pets must not harass or harm wildlife.
Pets must not harass visitors or other visitors' pets.
Pets are not allowed to bark often or incessantly
Pet waste must be buried in a shallow hole away from trails, campsites, cultural sites and natural water sources. Please remember, it is only courteous to clean up after your dog if it makes a mess in the trail or in camp. It's the pits to step in dog.