Coyote hunting yesterday...

[Rev. Coyote]

Good Job DAA on your years of time spent in the field and the respect that you have for coyotes that seems to go unnoticed in this very forum.

He respects them so much he kills them. That's some twisted logic there.

[Rev. Coyote]

I just hunt them for fun and to piss off the rev :wink: .

Hey man, whatever gives you a woodie. Who am I to judge?

[Rev. Coyote]

Rev. Coyote wrote:
jumar wrote:
Canyoneering has its bolt wars....caving has it's disclosure of cave locations...guess this forum has it's coyote hunting.


Bolt wars?


bolt wars ... kind of like the clone wars in star wars. piktchure the evil empire coming and modifying (some might say "dumbing down") canyons by placing metal bolts to mollify difficulties and obstacles naturally present in the canyon. the rebels have fought against the empire by using the good side of the force (knowledge, ingenuity and education) to spread the practice of natural anchoring and other non-permanent methods to deal with the obstacles ... convincing others of the need for and the elegance of broadening their skill set so that it's commensurate with the canyon rather than the reverse ... to respect the canyon, as it were.

the bolt wars further involved the middle ... those who aren't about to place a bolt everywhere, but can see the utility of placing them in certain places ...

the rebels seem to have won in general, however, the empire is still alive, though elusive ...

:lol8:
Yeah there's an endless debate on whether or not to use bolts, and when and where to use them.
Use the force Luke! Or a big pile of rocks to rappel off of. Whichever's easier. :haha:

Interesting... I'm a pansy about climbing that involves ropes, so had no idea there was a war aloft.

[fouristhenewone]

Coyotes are prolific, killing them to protect your ranch animals or for fun does not impact their numbers enough to even keep them in check, That's why the bounty on them and government subsidized control.

You mean to protect the cows and sheep that crap all over the same BLM land we all like to camp on? The ones that take a crap in 2/3 of the good springs in Utah? Boy am I glad we are protecting those slow elk.

DAA is a hero of mine, these critters are not at all easy to bag (except for fourist who can "pick of ten in an hour" :cool: )

your right. I was exaggerating. but I can definitely pick off that many neighborhood kids, cats, and dogs. They're just as helpless, but a little better eating. where's my government check for that?!

[Rev. Coyote]

DAA is a hero of mine, these critters are not at all easy to bag (except for fourist who can "pick of ten in an hour" :cool: )

your right. I was exaggerating. but I can definitely pick off that many neighborhood kids, cats, and dogs. They're just as helpless, but a little better eating. where's my government check for that?! :blahblah:

You, good sir, are one high-octane smartass! My hat is off to you.

[DAA]

Wow... Not sure what to say to all of this?

I'd engage in civil discussion here with some of you who seem so filled with blind hate if there were any point to it. But there isn't. Your comments vividly illustrate a profound lack of even the most basic knowledge, understanding or any modicum of experience with the very animal you champion. You guys so obviously know so little of the coyote, and have so obviously never spent any time observing them, yet you make such advanced judgements in regards to them, that there simply isn't any grounds upon which to begin even the most basic of civil discussion. I have been privileged to spend thousands of days in the field pursuing coyotes, with both rifle and camera. I've observed first hand the entire life cycle of the coyote. I have an extensive library of coyote literature, including everything from both published and un-published graduate works, to both published and un-published gov't funded studies, to non scientific literature like Dobe's stories of coyote lore. I have spent countless hours talking to people who have devoted their professional careers to either studying coyotes, or attempting to control coyotes. Coyotes are my favorite animal. I have much admiration and a deep seated appreciation for the coyote. I wish coyotes as a species nothing but prosperity. But I have a deep enough understanding of the coyote, it's nature, it's adapability, it's intelligence and reslience, that I know the coyote does not need my well wishes in order to prosper. The coyote is going to prosper regardless of what Man does, or does not do. But, if in some fantasy world that will never actually exist, I thought that hunting the coyote would harm that prosperity, I'd be the most vocal, active anti-coyote hunting advocate you could imagine.

All you guys are offering are superficial, self centered, ignorant, hateful ravings utterly lacking even a shred of intellectual integrity. It's about hate, it's about yourselfs. It's not about the coyote. You don't know the first thing about the coyote and I believe that deep down, you don't give a rats ass about the coyote either.

But, anyway... The magnitude of your ignorance regarding the coyote is mirrored in your lack of knowlege or understanding of the coyote hunter. You truly have no clue. You offer nothing here but mindless insult and farcical input. I'm no crusader. It's not my job to educate or enlighten you.

So... I guess for you guys that suffer blind hate for that which you have no understanding or knowledge of, well, I just feel sorry for you. And I'll leave it at that...

- DAA

[MY T PIMP]

When I kill coyotes I give the carcasses to Vietnamese restraunts and homeless shelters. It makes me feel good about killing the mangy mongruls. One time we blew the ass end off a dog, damn shame but the meat was no good. So we propped it up in a toilet in the womans bathroom of a rest stop. The little guy looked so cute with his head all propped up over his paws like he was coming right out of the toilet. I am glad that at least that carcass brought us a bit of entertainment. You should of seen the women running out of there, priceless!

[Rev. Coyote]

DAA: I read your diatribe and was amused to see you paint yourself as a victim of blind hatred. That's overly-dramatic to a level only known by high school girls.

I've also read you gleeful accounts of coyote killing, and the joy you take in blasting coyotes out of their pads precludes even the slightest notion that you respect these animals. It's kind of like the way a child molester talks about how much he loves kids.

I spend a lot of time watching coyotes and even recording their night songs while I'm in Utah. Perhaps I'm not the "expert" you are on the animal, but know enough to see how wrong it is to goof on killing them. Again, to claim a love and respect for the coyote while getting cheap thrills killing them is a non-sequitur. You need to do some serious soul-searching about this.

[fouristhenewone]

DAA - I'll take that bait.

Here is the thing that I truly can't wrap my head around. Your respect for the Coyote as an animal translates into a desire to hunt them for sport? I may be dense, but I just can't understand that mentality. You know, I have a deep seated knowledge and respect for several living species, wolves for one, the ponderosa pine for another. Yet, I've never felt the urge to kill a wolf or to cut down a ponderosa pine, just for sport. I could respect you if you had given me some understanding of the purpose or logic behind what you do. But you haven't yet. Basically, all you've told me so far is "i have a profound respect for coyotes, yet, since it's not going to make an impact on the population, I highly enjoy killing them for no particular purpose." This is the same mentality of people who kill rabbits or potguts, just for the purpose of seeing a explosion of guts and blood. I just can't understand it. Believe me I have tried. I grew up in small town Utah, so it's not as if I haven't been exposed to any of this before.

You said "The magnitude of your ignorance regarding the coyote is mirrored in your lack of knowledge or understanding of the coyote hunter."

The thing is, I've been around people shooting rabbits, coyotes, pot-guts for all of my life, quite a few of them within my own family. The thing is, not one of them has been this fabled "coyote-hunter" that you speak of. They are just a bunch of good old boys who like to head to the fields and kill things for fun. Nothing from your original post shows me anything different.

As far as your taking pity on me - thanks, but I don't need it. I'm not the uneducated, hate filled person you're speaking about.

It's not about the act itself, it's about the mentality. As I mentioned before, while your completely convinced that humans are not going to make a dent in the coyote population, well, I find that hard to believe. The reality of the situation is, as I'm sure your aware, over-population of animals lower in the food chain is usually caused by the removal of that animals natural predators. Nature did a grand job of keeping things in balance for thousands of years, most people don't seem to grasp the impact we have had on that balance. As you'll recall, passenger pigeons, dodo's, bison, were all hunted to extinction or near extinction by people who thought they were never going to seriously impact the population of those animals. When was the last time you saw a flock of passenger pigeons?

[DAA]

I didn't offer any bait...

Here is the thing that I truly can't wrap my head around. Your respect for the Coyote as an animal translates into a desire to hunt them for sport? I may be dense, but I just can't understand that mentality. ....

....This is the same mentality of people who kill rabbits or potguts, just for the purpose of seeing a explosion of guts and blood. I just can't understand it. Believe me I have tried.

Well, that's all just fine with me. You don't have to understand what I do. Or understand me, or even like me. You are more than welcome to not like what I do and have a dislike for those of us who do it. I have no need or desire to make you understand. I don't understand you either. So be it. No big deal. I'm content to just leave it at that. It's when you start spewing actual hate towards me, just because of something you don't understand, that I start to feel sorry for you. Distaste and dislike for people you have never met and know nothing about are one thing, real venomous hate is totally something different. People with inner peace, a sense of well being, happy people, they don't go around projecting irrational hatred. They just don't. That's where I'm coming from when I say I feel sorry for you. But I don't know anything about you. Maybe you are a young man. When I was young I had a lot of rage inside of me that frequently got projected irrationally . I think that is pretty normal for most young men. If that's the case here, then it's really no big deal. People my age though, like I know the Rev. is, well, I really do feel sorry for anyone to have reached that stage of life and still be dealing with such a lack of inner peace and confidence as to be almost visibly leaking out insecurity and hate everywhere he goes. The persona he portrays here on the board is really kind of sad. But, like I said earlier, it's not my gig to help him.

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It's not about the act itself, it's about the mentality. As I mentioned before, while your completely convinced that humans are not going to make a dent in the coyote population, well, I find that hard to believe. The reality of the situation is, as I'm sure your aware, over-population of animals lower in the food chain is usually caused by the removal of that animals natural predators. Nature did a grand job of keeping things in balance for thousands of years, most people don't seem to grasp the impact we have had on that balance. As you'll recall, passenger pigeons, dodo's, bison, were all hunted to extinction or near extinction by people who thought they were never going to seriously impact the population of those animals. When was the last time you saw a flock of passenger pigeons?

Wow... See, this is where I usually try not to get sucked in. We are bordering on civil discussion. Which is great. I appreciate that you are sincere in your effort. But, the paragraph above has so many completely false assumptions in it, that it would be really difficult to base a civil discussion around it. I'd have to start by picking the above apart, point by point. Frankly, that pretty much always degenerates into a waste of everyones time and effort. Especially when you have a peanut gallery jeering from the sidelines who just want to get back to the name calling.

I really know better, and shouldn't be wasting time on this, but what the heck... I hope you aren't offended by cut and paste style response. I generally don't like it, as it is usually used to take things out of context and twist things around. Long time favored tactic of forum hemorhoids everywhere. Anyway, against my better judgement...

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It's not about the act itself, it's about the mentality.

I'll give you that. If you don't like the mentality, that's your business and I won't try to change your mind. I don't see why it needs to be a source of friction though?

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As I mentioned before, while your completely convinced that humans are not going to make a dent in the coyote population, well, I find that hard to believe.

If you don't believe it, do the research then. The coyote is one of the most studied animals in North America. Due to it's economic impact on agricultural producers, there has been more funding and more good solid scientific research done on coyote population dynamics than almost any other animal in America. Piles and piles of data are out there for the reading. Barring the illegal use of banned poisons such as compound 1080, there simply has not been any success in controlling coyote populations. Ever. I'm not talking about recreational hunting, I'm talking full scale, industrial strength, government funded, all out scorched earth erradication effort. Utterly failed. In every instance. There are now more coyotes, in more places than ever before. I won't say that Man "can not" have an impact. Man can. But not using any currently legal means. And certainly, recreational hunting has zero impact on the resource. Every scientific study that has ever been done has reached this conclusion. Common sense and open eyes bear out this fact as well.

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The reality of the situation is, as I'm sure your aware, over-population of animals lower in the food chain is usually caused by the removal of that animals natural predators.

Well... No, not in this instance. Again, do the research. What you'll find, is that when speaking specifically of coyotes and other large land based predators, is that the predator populations are determined by the prey base. Not the other way around. Rabbit populations are not largely influenced by coyote numbers. But coyote populations are strongly correlated to rabbit populations. That is to say, take away the coyotes, and rabbit numbers are not strongly impacted. Take away the rabbits though, and coyote numbers plummet. You have it exactly backwards, I'm afraid. But, again, don't take my word for it. Do your own research. There are volumes and volumes of data available on this subject. I own many of them. Google the Curlew Valley study area for this specific subject, studied in our own back yard.

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Nature did a grand job of keeping things in balance for thousands of years, most people don't seem to grasp the impact we have had on that balance.

I'm in partial agreement. This is a huge subject though, way beyond the scope of this discussion. Suffice it to say though, that I believe 100% that recreational coyote hunting has no impact on the coyote resource. It does have very slight positive impact on other wildlife resources, but not enough to be worth talking about, in my opinion. And besides, I don't begrudge coyotes for having to eat. They can eat all the deer and antelope fawns they want. It doesn't hurt my feelings. They are just doing what coyotes do.

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As you'll recall, passenger pigeons, dodo's, bison, were all hunted to extinction or near extinction by people who thought they were never going to seriously impact the population of those animals.

Way, way, WAY too broad of a brush! Bison, for one, were very intentionaly hunted into near extinction. It was an intentional strategy to starve the plains indians and bring them to their knees while simultaneously incentivizing exploration and explotation of other natural resources. That was no short sighted "ooops". That was intentional extirpation. Your other examples are tragic, but bear absolutely no resemblance nor any relationship to the situation with coyotes and recreational coyote hunting today. There simply isn't any correlation, at all. Again, I urge you not to take my word for it. If you are truly interested, do your own research, make your own conclusions based on the best evidence you are able to find. And don't forget to wear your BS sniffer when reading the scientific stuff either! Always find out who funded the study and it also helps to know the background and motivation of the researchers when applying the BS meter to their published studies. Everyone has an agenda and some of the big names in coyote research push their personal pet agendas pretty hard.

If you do all that research, and reach your own conclusions, and those conclusions are different than mine - fine. We'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree. Hell, even if you reach the same conclusions I have, and still want to hold coyote hunting and coyote hunters in disdain, that's fine too. I encourage you to dislike me . Just don't go around projecting irrational hate, based on a poor understanding of the facts, when mountains of data and evidence are so readily available. Besides, hate is just bad Karma, you'll feel better all around by just letting it go.

- DAA

[jumar]

Here I thought the thread was locked.

[Sombeech]

Here I thought the thread was locked.

Yeah, that's pending. We're just waiting for one more personal attack.

[Rev. Coyote]

People my age though, like I know the Rev. is, well, I really do feel sorry for anyone to have reached that stage of life and still be dealing with such a lack of inner peace and confidence as to be almost visibly leaking out insecurity and hate everywhere he goes.

Gosh, Ghandi, you make some profound points!

So tell me: How is it that indulging in blasting dogs a trait of someone experiencing "inner peace?" I know we should all just accept this pastime of yours, but there's no way in Hell you can make a point for this being no more than an outlet for pure meaness and utter depravity. Your responses always ignore this point, and it's probably good they do. You have no justification.

As far as that Hate Thing, I don't hate you, just hate what you do to the coyotes. But I do know this: Your hate for me is right on the surface. And that I find kind of funny.

[Rev. Coyote]

A peek at the language of the Mighty Dog Killer:

First couple stands were dry, but on the third stand we had a big gorgeous coyote come in just perfect. Offered up a slam dunk broadside shot.

The sports analogy. Real respectful. Feel the love.

She had her nose up trying to get a taste of the breeze and looked nervous to me. So I dumped her right there, posthaste. Hit her exactly where I was aiming, at the neck/chest junction. She dropped like a ton of bricks, bang-flop.

Bang-flop. Pure poetry. Robert Frost, almost. Feel the love for the animal.

Back to the truck, I start to put the .20 away, Tim says no, he's gonna kill a coyote with that rifle it it's the last thing he does. Cool with me.

Of course.

Big mature male, coming hard. I had some tall sage brush partially blocking my view, so the footage I got is only so-so, but I'll be danged if Tim didn't roll that sucker on the run! The transformation of his mood was remarkable! And good to see!

[DAA]

Here I thought the thread was locked.

Yeah, that's pending. We're just waiting for one more personal attack.

Yeah... I really shouldn't have picked at the scab that is this thread. Foolish of me. My apologies, and I'll leave it alone now. Locked or not.

- DAA

[shagster]

Sorry fellas were gonna lock this one down, the personal attacks have went on too long!!