Idaho's "governor" proves himself a complete jerk

[DAA]

"Fact remains, we've killed enough wolves in this country to push them into threatened and endangered status."

Uhhh... 'scuse me? Wolves are not anywhere CLOSE to "threatened and endangered" in this country. Ever heard of Alaska? Or, moving outside the U.S., Canada? Wolves populations are thriving in areas where habitat to sustain them is still intact. Always have been. Always will. Wolves have never been in any danger of extinction - not even close. They were extirpated from most of the CONUS a generation ago. But there is a huge difference between local extirpation and the "threatened and endangered status" you are giving them. Which is not surprising. That is precisely what the PR campaign funded by the anti hunting groups most responsible for the introduction of the Yellowstong wolves has been aiming to do - brainwash people into believing wolves are threatened with extinction, which is simply not true at all. These are the same people that have been lobbying for endangered status for prairie dogs for crying out loud.

What the introduced wolves have enjoyed though, is "protected" status. It's that protected status that allows them to exist in the areas they had long since ceased to survive. Unlike coyotes, which have been even more persecuted than wolves (by a gigantic margin) and yet continue to increase their population and range despite well funded and hard fought erradication efforts spanning the entire history of the U.S. because they are an adaptable specie able to survive and thrive in almost any habitat and in close proximity to human population centers. Wolves on the other hand, are more specialized and have much more specific habitat requirements. Those requirements caused conflict with man, so the wolves, not possessing the adaptive qualities of the coyote, were rather easily extirpated. Since that time, the type of habitat required for wolves to exist without conflict with man has shrunk significantly. To the point that there just aren't too many places where wolves can roam free without causing economic turmoil for locals.

So we have conflict. And emotion. And drama. And lots and lots of decisions being made based on emotion. By people either simply ignorant of the cold hard facts, or worse, and unfortunately more common amongst the policy makers - decisions being made on emotion even when the facts ARE understood.

I don't want to see the introduced wolves extirpated again. Not that I think that will ever happen. But, the fact remains that the targeted number of breeding packs and over all wolf population goals of the introduction have LONG SINCE been exceeded. There are now far more of the wolves, in far more places, than anyone made any "official" management plans for. So, now the agencies charged with managing these wolves are trying to ease into the idea that they must indeed BE managed. No different than any other animal that has significant impact on resources and economies. That management will ultimately either end up with sport hunting to control population numbers, or professional removal. I have a very good friend who will be one of the people doing the "professional removal". Actually, he'll be doing it whether there is sport hunting or not. It's his job to go out and kill the problem wolves known to be causing livestock damage. But, if the various and disparate public agencies involved in trying to come up with a "wolf management plan" fail to provide a population control via sport hunting, he'll be killing them just for the sake of reducing their numbers.

So... Take your pick. Sport hunting or professional killing. Either way, the wolves need to be managed, and managed they eventually shall be.

- DAA

[Rev. Coyote]

I have a very good friend who will be one of the people doing the "professional removal". Actually, he'll be doing it whether there is sport hunting or not. It's his job to go out and kill the problem wolves known to be causing livestock damage.

He sounds like real high quality people....

I say we take five welfare free range cows for ever "problem" wolf killed by knuckle-draggers like your little friend. My .308 awaits the opportunity. It'll be fun.

And don't get all emotional. They're just cows. Cows sucking the public titty and ruining the native vegetation. Cows endangering predator species through people like your friend.

Really, that's where this whole battle needs to go -- take a wolf, lose some welfare cattle. I'm good with that. You ready?

[Sombeech]

Really, that's where this whole battle needs to go -- take a wolf, lose some welfare cattle. I'm good with that. You ready?

Those damned cows, roaming the hills wild and disrespecting their elders. That's an Apples to Apples comparison. In fact, cows are worse with those Wolves because the poop's bigger.

Kill 'em!

[Rev. Coyote]

Uhhh... 'scuse me? Wolves are not anywhere CLOSE to "threatened and endangered" in this country.

Oh, and by the way, there are wolves federally recognized as endangered and threatened in this country. Here's a link to get you started on the gray and the red wolves:

http://ecos.fws.gov/tess_public/SpeciesReport.do

I don't entirely trust the gummint, but these findings are, I'm certain, more thorough than any you've attempted for damn sure.

[Rev. Coyote]

Those damned cows, roaming the hills wild and disrespecting their elders. That's an Apples to Apples comparison. In fact, cows are worse with those Wolves because the poop's bigger.

Kill 'em!

Come with me! I'll bring the bourbon, the Mauser, and the spatula. I cook a steak will make you want to smack your momma.

Can we use your Jeep...?

[Sombeech]

I cook a steak will make you want to smack your momma.

Mmmm, that sounds good. I didn't realize you can get a steak from Wolves.

[donny h]

I wouldn't be a popular land manager with most of y'all.

I think the wolf should be reintroduced throughout it's original habitat, coast to coast, Can to Mex.

I also want grizz back in their range, most of the west.

Utah clearly has the habitat for populations of both species.

Don't worry, the grizphobia and wolfphobia is widespread, it will never happen.

Fear of wolves in the back country is a sad joke, please find me a documented case of wolves killing a human in the U.S., ever. If your a cow, worry, if your a human, no worries.

Bears kill an average of six/year in North America. Six is so statistically insignificant it may as well be zero.

You are far more likely to be hit by lightning or die of a bee sting.

[JP]

Six is so statistically insignificant

Unless you are one of the six or related thereto

[donny h]

Six is so statistically insignificant

Unless you are one of the six or related thereto

True, and I carry bear spray when I hike, knowing that I still have far better odds on winning the lotto than being attacked by a bear.

Dogs, both wild and domestic, pose a far greater threat to our safety than bears and wolves.

Barnyard pigs also kill a fair number of people every year.

Snakes may kill 10 to 20 folks per year.

West Nile is killing over 100 people per year, if someone want's to worry about an actual animal risk, that's it.

I guess my point is that I think bearphobia/wolfphobia is just silly.

[Rev. Coyote]

I wouldn't be a popular land manager with most of y'all.

I think the wolf should be reintroduced throughout it's original habitat, coast to coast, Can to Mex.

I also want grizz back in their range, most of the west.

Utah clearly has the habitat for populations of both species.

Don't worry, the grizphobia and wolfphobia is widespread, it will never happen.

Fear of wolves in the back country is a sad joke, please find me a documented case of wolves killing a human in the U.S., ever. If your a cow, worry, if your a human, no worries.

Bears kill an average of six/year in North America. Six is so statistically insignificant it may as well be zero.

You are far more likely to be hit by lightning or die of a bee sting.

I'm completely with you. That's why I suggest for every wolf killed by some knuckle-dragger, FIVE free-range welfare cows need to go.

[donny h]

for every wolf killed by some knuckle-dragger, FIVE free-range welfare cows need to go.

If you're talking about shooting cows as revenge, that's just being a knuckle dragger with a different point of view.

[Rev. Coyote]

for every wolf killed by some knuckle-dragger, FIVE free-range welfare cows need to go.

If you're talking about shooting cows as revenge, that's just being a knuckle dragger with a different point of view.

I'm glad you understand the game.

[Brian in SLC]

Fear of wolves in the back country is a sad joke, please find me a documented case of wolves killing a human in the U.S., ever. If your a cow, worry, if your a human, no worries.

This is as close as I've ever heard of...

Been to Yakutat a couple of times...fun spot...

-Brian in SLC

Wolf attacks 6-year-old near Yakutat
by KAREN AHO Daily News reporter
Thursday, April 27, 2000

In what may be the first report of a wolf attacking a human in Alaska, a radio-collared wolf on Wednesday repeatedly bit a 6-year-old boy playing in a grove of alders at a logging camp northwest of Yakutat, Alaska State Troopers said.

The boy had tears on his back and puncture wounds, but he was not seriously injured, troopers said.

The wolf, an adult male that returned to the area shortly afterward and was shot, did not have any obvious signs of injury or trauma that would immediately explain aggressive behavior, troopers said. The wolf will be tested for rabies.

"This is exceedingly rare, and I don't know of any other cases like this, in Alaska," said Matt Robus, former Junea-area biologist and now deputy director of the Division of Wildlife Conservation.

The wolf's carcass was flown to Yakutat, where, in accordance with routine Fish and Wildlife Protection policy, the responding trooper burned its body.

The state Department of Fish and Game was to send the wolf's head to Fairbanks for a rabies test at the University of Alaska Fairbanks virology lab. If it is disease-free, state wildlife biologist Mark McNay will examine it further, although he's not sure what he'll determine from the head.

"There's not going to be a whole lot we can say about the animal. I expect what I'll see is the skull of a fairly normal wolf," McNay said. "I'd be surprised if the skull's going to tell us much."

According to troopers, the boy was with a 9-year-old friend and a dog Wednesday morning cutting alders and playing at a logging camp at Icy Bay when the wolf appeared. Startled, the boys began to run, said Fish and Wildlife Protection trooper Marc Cloward, who interviewed the boy in a Yakutat clinic.

"At that point, the wolf knocked him down, drug him down," Cloward said.

The 6-year-old was bitten three times, once in the lower back and twice in the buttocks. All were puncture wounds, with some tears on the lower back.

A camp carpenter ran out and threw rocks at the wolf, which let go of the boy, Cloward said.

About 10 minutes later, the wolf reappeared and was shot. The wolf's body was put in a bag. Both it and the boy were flown to Yakutat on an air taxi.

Cloward and two state fisheries biologists examined the wolf in Yakutat. They said it appeared to be an average size wolf and weighed about 75 pounds.

It had a radio collar, but it was unknown Wednesday which agency had put it on. Troopers said the collar was tight and that hair was missing from the wolf's neck. McNay said it's common for collars to affect hair growth on an animal's neck but that collars have never been known to affect an animal's behavior.

The boy was treated at the Yakutat clinic, where he received seven stitches and five surgical closure staples, troopers said.

Gov. Tony Knowles on Wednesday contacted the Department of Public Safety and the Department of Fish and Game to request a complete investigation.

"These types of incidents are extremely rare," the governor's spokesman, Bob King, said. "He just wants to follow through on this."

McNay said he knew of no documented reports of healthy wolves killing people in North America. He couldn't recall any reports of wolves attacking humans in Alaska.

History has recorded fatal wolf attacks in Europe and in India. In most cases, those wolves had become accustomed to humans.

Rabies would be the most likely explanation for aggressive behavior. According to the March 29 Alaska epidemiology bulletin, rabies is present in foxes in Western and Northwest Alaska, not Southcentral or Southeast.

However, wolves can range a great distance, McNay said.

[Gutpiler_Utahn]

The following link goes to a news article posted from the Idaho Press-Tribune and is quite graphic in nature. There used to be pictures in this link and they really drove the point home. PResently the pictures have been removed, but the details of the story paint a picture of what wolves are capable of. http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf...3260.msg569837

With that being said, I'm sure it was an emotional thing for HIM when the Gov. layed this on the table. As far as I'm concerned, I applaud him for trying to nip a potential threat in the bud, and don't gimme any of that "wolves are beautiful creatures" and "we should honor them" and "there's never been any record of a wolf killing a person" or even "let's slaughter cattle in return." If wolves ever lost their fear of man, as many yotes have, there'd be a lot of hunters that would be in some serious danger. Just like the mtn. lion problems. They're becoming more and more abundant and many have no fear of man. How do they get the fear if man isn't a threat to their survival? At least coyote attacks have happened with just one at a time. Imagine if you tripled the size of those coyotes and gave them the instinct to hunt in packs. You can bet your ass that the government would be paying a hell of a lot more than $12 an hour for predator control (which is the going starter rate).

If you know much about the relationship cycles between yotes and bunnies, then you'll note that when the bunny population soars, so does the yote population. When the bunny population takes a nose dive, so do the yotes. If the wolves continue to grow and grow, then you'll see the same trend with big game and the wolves... and if you think death by gunshot is a terrible death, then you've never seen an animal die via starvation. Nature is a cruel bitch. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ1vbKm7BnE) (Warning: The video posted is quite graphic in nature and not intended for the weak of heart or stomach)

Personally, I know a great taxidermist (Lady_T on gutpilestyle.com) who would LOVE to get her hands on a wolf to mount, and if they okay the wolf hunt, you can bet your rear that I'd be MORE than happy to go out and buy a whole new outfit specifically for the purpose of this hunt and would gladly head up there with anybody here.

P.S. - If this DOES go through and anybody here wants to head up that way, lemme know so I can make arrangements with work.

[Rev. Coyote]

If wolves ever lost their fear of man, as many yotes have, there'd be a lot of hunters that would be in some serious danger. Just like the mtn. lion problems.

What sort of armed individual would fear a wolf? Maybe it will make the sport more "sporting."

Are you sure, by the way, that the woman you referenced " would LOVE to get her hands on a wolf to mount," isn't actually looking to be mounted by a wolf? Sounds more likely.

Dog killers are scum.

[Sombeech]

What sort of armed individual would fear a wolf?

Probably the ones who aren't out to hunt the wolves. I'd hesitate to shoot a wolf if I was deer hunting.

[Rev. Coyote]

I'd hesitate to shoot a wolf if I was deer hunting.

That's silly. You'd use your gun if being attacked, whether by wolf, crack addict, or batallion of Nazis.

[Sombeech]

I'd hesitate to shoot a wolf if I was deer hunting.

That's silly. You'd use your gun if being attacked, whether by wolf, crack addict, or batallion of Nazis.

Attacked, yes. Do I want to be attacked though......

The other side of this is, will they attack hunters only? Or will they lose their discrimination and start heading for hikers?

[Rev. Coyote]

The other side of this is, will they attack hunters only? Or will they lose their discrimination and start heading for hikers?

The wolf is unlikely to eat the rawbone hiker, which frequently tastes of patchoui -- bitter to the palate. However, the common American hunter is quite plump and savory.

[Sombeech]

However, the common American hunter is quite plump and savory.

No, I think you mean ATV riders.