Rappel anchors on the GWI in LCC...

[Brian in SLC]

Was curious if any of you canyoneering types know anything about the newer anchors sprouting up on the GWI (Great White Icicle).

Who's done it and what anchors have you been using? Anyone know who placed the alternate rappel anchors?

-Brian in SLC

[Brian in SLC]

Posted on a climbing website today:

"The new anchors above the bulge pitch are in a really bad location. They are 40 ft above the bulge on the left side, right in the direct path of icefall from anyone above you. I was with Tenesmus when he got nailed. A few feet higher there is a small crack that I have built anchors in before-- more out of the ice fall zone. I am sure it is guys using the GWI for canyoneering that have put these new anchors in. They are really bad for the climb and have really taken the alpine feel away from the climb."

Might be only a matter of time before someone else gets hurt or killed. I'd recommend that whoever placed these new bolts, get up there and remove them. This should have never been published and/or popularized as a canyon venue. For shame. Or is that, for Shane...

-Brian in SLC

[Iceaxe]

Real Canyoneers don't use bolts, they use imagination

You have my permission to yank every bolt on the planet

[Scott Card]

You have my permission to yank every bolt on the planet

Except for a couple like the bolts at the bird perch in Heaps. Leave them for me please.....

[Brian in SLC]

Real Canyoneers don't use bolts, they use imagination

No they don't, they use YOUR website. Its the only place for beta on this as a canyon venue.

How 'bout taking the description down? YOUR description popularizing this canyon will eventually lead to someone getting hurt or killed. YOUR description emphasizes the use of bolts. YOU must not be a REAL canyoneer.

Not saying it would be totally YOUR fault, though. Not totally. We'll let the lawyer sort that out, though.

This is something I warned you about, Shane. Maybe now, before someone else gets hurt or killed, you'll actually do something and remove this canyon from your website.

-Brian in SLC

[Scott P]

Its the only place for beta on this as a canyon venue.

Would you like to bet money on that?

[Iceaxe]

Deja Moo: The feeling that I've heard this bull before.

The GWI does not belong solely to ice climbers, it is on public land.... You are assuming the bolts were placed by canyoneers.... big assumption. The reason that published guides still exist is that they are protected under the right to free speech, otherwise they would have been sued out of existence long ago.

And FWIW... the following has been on the GWI page from the beginning:

This is an involved canyoneering route not intended for beginners. Please do not place new bolts or anchors on this route in summer. The Great White Icicle is a very popular ice climbing area and anchors misplaced in summer could become deadly in winter. Ice climbing anchors are often placed to avoid ice fall and not necessarily placed in the ideal location for rope management.

[Brian in SLC]

The GWI does not belong solely to ice climbers, it is on public land.... You are assuming the bolts were placed by canyoneers.... big assumption. The reason that published guides still exist is that they are protected under the right to free speech, otherwise they would have been sued out of existence long ago.

Well, I hope you don't get to test this in court.

Seems like the only folks that ask me about it, are ones that get the description from your website. I argued with you long ago that this was a bad idear, and that tree is starting to bear fruit. Like I predicted.

Someone will get hurt (again) or killed and it'll be partly because you popularized this venue. And, if you don't think land managers pay attention to this kind of stuff, you head is in the sand (or a worse place). What your precious and selfish little free speech website is doing is risking access for everyone.

And FWIW... the following has been on the GWI page from the beginning:
This is an involved canyoneering route not intended for beginners. Please do not place new bolts or anchors on this route in summer. The Great White Icicle is a very popular ice climbing area and anchors misplaced in summer could become deadly in winter. Ice climbing anchors are often placed to avoid ice fall and not necessarily placed in the ideal location for rope management.

Incorrect. You only added that after I asked you to, after my plea that you remove the route was ignored. Your way of compromise.

Even your description says that you extended anchors.

What's your nickname, the "pied piper"?

Risk is all on you. So, now, instead of private emails between us, me asking you to remove the route from your website, it'll be here as part of the public free speech record.

Lets hope that the media, when an accident occurs, stumbles onto this little thread, and your website. Here, this will save the media and the lawyers some time:

http://www.climb-utah.com/WM/icicle.htm

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC

[Iceaxe]

Risk is all on you.

Don't forget.... I'm also responsible for the war in Iraq, global warming, world hunger and K-Fed's plummeting career....

[Reedus]

Hmmm, think I will go ahead and add a few of my own bolts up there just to spite Brian. Kinda presumptous to blame canyoneers and a website that offers beta on routes, don't ya think?

[Brian in SLC]

Hmmm, think I will go ahead and add a few of my own bolts up there just to spite Brian. Kinda presumptous to blame canyoneers and a website that offers beta on routes, don't ya think?

No it isn't.

This wasn't an issue for the many many years that folks climbed the GWI. Now that it is a canyon venue, all of a sudden new anchors popping up? Totally related. Totally predicted.

-Brian in SLC

[Reedus]

Ok, so canyoneers did place new anchors. How, in the name of all that is holy, does that make someone who popularized the route for canyoneers guilty if some ice climber uses one of the anchors placed by some random canyoneer and falls to his death? I sure as hell inspect all my anchors I use when I canyoneer before I trust my life on them. And if the anchors in GWI are in a dangerous spot, DONT USE THEM. People need to use their head and not try and find a venue to blame someone when they get hurt doing an INHERENTLY dangerous activity.
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