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Thread: Universal 9
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12-14-2006, 09:21 PM #1
Universal 9
Here is a new rappel device that will supposedly be manufactuered this winter and marketed by Edelweiss. The webpage is in Frog but the pictures tell the story
Universal 9 (In French)
http://canyon.escalade.free.fr/canyon.htm
or
Universal 9 (rough English translation)
http://tinyurl.com/ygtpf2
The device looks like a Piranha on steroids..... or maybe a Piranha with whistles and bells.... you make the call.
It appears the device can easily switch from descend to stop to lock-off to ascending with little effort. The downfall of the device is that it does not appear to handle rappelling double strand ropes very well. it also appears as if the device has the normal weakness of most figure 8 type devices in that it can easily girth hitch itself.
Universal 9 in standard or traditional mode.
If you don't understand the girth hitch problem here is a thread I put together on the subject a while back
Girth Hitch and the Figure 8
http://uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1260
So.... any comments or thoughts on the Universal 9?
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12-14-2006 09:21 PM # ADS
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12-15-2006, 07:34 AM #2
Looks like a "girth-hitcher" to me. I'll continue to use my "non-girth-hitching" ATC-XP...
It's only "science" if it supports the narrative.
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12-15-2006, 08:19 AM #3
I grew up learning with an eight and never really thought about the disadvantages to using one. I have never had one girth hitch on me, but the rope twisting effect inherent to the eights had me trying the ATC. After giving one a try in the squeeze, i would never go back to the eight. I do carry one for back up though.
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12-15-2006, 08:46 AM #4
I also learned on an 8. I have never girth hitched myself, but I have seen several folks do it, usually beginners and usually when sliding over the edge of a free hanging rappel.
For backup you might consider learning to rappel using a biner and a munter hitch. Then you don't have to carry the extra weight of a spare 8.
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12-15-2006, 09:01 AM #5
On the Trailside episode where they went canyoneering they had him pass his rope down through the big hole (instead coming up through the bottom), then around the little end to avoid girth hitching. Anything wrong with this approach?
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12-15-2006, 09:08 AM #6
I need a picture or better explanation to see what you are talking about...
There is a method to stop 8's from girth hitching. Some call it sport or canyon mode. But it has a really nasty side effect in that the system can "buckle" and drop you on your head. The Piranha avoids this buckle effect by having the biner fit really tight through the attachment hole, but most 8 type system don't address the problem of sport mode.
I just put up a thread on
Getting Down Without a Rappelling Device
http://uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4337
That should be required reading for all noobie type canyoneers.
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12-15-2006, 09:27 AM #7
Typically you take a bite of rope, push it up through the bottom of the big hole, then pass the loop over the little end. Because the the loop around the little end is on the underside of the eight, if you go over a lip it can catch and push it into a girth. To avoid that they were passing the bite down the big hole, and up around the little end. This way the loop around the little end is above the device. When I take people using figure eights, I usually have them hook it up this way to avoid a girth. Did I explain that well enough?
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12-15-2006, 09:32 AM #8
Explained perfectly....
And if you look at the
Girth Hitch and the Figure 8
http://uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1260
thread, you will note in the last photo shows this preferred method of hooking into an 8.
I'm one step ahead of you
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12-15-2006, 09:39 AM #9
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12-15-2006, 02:59 PM #10
Ya, but.... what about just attaching the 8 to the harness and then taking the bite of the rope and pulling it down through the big end of the 8 and into the biner like the Piranha? That not only minimizes the risk of the girth hitch but it eliminates the risk. You can add friction a couple of different ways cause it will be a little quick for beefier folks.
The 9 looks kinda cool. Must try it out.Life is Good
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12-15-2006, 03:16 PM #11Originally Posted by Scott Card
The Canyon Mode method can be REALLY dangerous. The entire system has the ability to "buckle" if it is loaded incorrectly. If the system buckles you instantly lose all friction and fall to your death. Most figure 8's were not designed to be rigged in Canyon Mode.
The Pirana is an exception as it was designed to be rigged in canyon mode only. The Pirana was designed not to buckle by creating a very tight fit between the biner and the rappel device.
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12-15-2006, 03:45 PM #12
I have seen that rig kink or buckle up a couple of times on folks but it had the opposite effect the one time I didn't notice it on a person before they went over the edge. It created a jumbled mess and the kid who did it stopped cold about 5 feet from the lip of the cliff. I am also usually last and I have caught several newbies with the kink before they went. With that info, I will watch it even more carefully with those sportin' an 8.
Life is Good
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12-15-2006, 03:54 PM #13
The direction of buckle (in or out) might have the two different effects. I've seen the system buckle and result in free fall.... I'll have to do some experimenting when I get some time.
Personally.... there is no way in hell I'm letting beginners rap in sport mode.... YMMV.
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12-15-2006, 04:18 PM #14Originally Posted by IceaxeLife is Good
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12-15-2006, 04:27 PM #15
They make an 8 that is usually referred to as a "Rescue 8" that has two little horns that stop the girth hitch problem. Or you can just rig the 8 in reverse mode to cure the problem.
Rescue 8
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12-15-2006, 04:32 PM #16
Well, if your going to buy that you may as well go with a Piranha or ATC. The cost is pretty close to the same unless you don't have the right biner for the Piranha. I think most rookies go with 8's cause they are cheaper than anything else. I think I will just show those with 8's the reverse mode. That seems to be the best solution.
Life is Good
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12-15-2006, 04:41 PM #17
Figure 8's are nice with beginners because they are simple to look at and see if they are rigged correctly.
All rappel devices have their pitfalls. The big deal with the tube devices (ATC's) is that folks miss clipping one of their ropes into the biner. It is hard to see this error until the poor sucker steps over the edge and falls to their death.
All the 8's twist ropes which often is the cause of stuck ropes.
yada.... yada....
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01-31-2007, 02:54 PM #18
A little birdie has told me the Figure 9 will be avaiable at CanyoneeringUSA in the near future.
Canyoneering USA
http://canyoneeringusa.com
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02-01-2007, 06:53 AM #19
Re: Universal 9
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Does look a bit on the thin side for abrasive Utah canyons.
Some of the lightweight CMI rappel racks look nice (one has two hyperbars?). And, so does the Kong Hydrobot, but, see on the canyons group that someone didn't like that one. Anyone tried that one?
Hard to beat an ATC...
-Brian in SLC
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02-01-2007, 08:14 AM #20
Re: Universal 9
Originally Posted by Brian in SLCLife is Good
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