Car Camping - Tent or Cot?

[Scott Card]

For a few more bucks, they have these new down filled air pads. I got one for my Heaps Canyon trip and you use the stuff sac to inflate the thing (ya don't want moisture in the down) I think that thing is rated at about -15 degrees and has an advertised R value of 9 or some such thing. It is pricey but very warm and comfortable, light and fairly compact. The stuff sac even has some padding in it to be sued as a pillow. I can't remember the brand but if anyone is interested I will check when I get home and post tomorrow.

[moabfool]

For a few more bucks, they have these new down filled air pads.

I had my eye on those. I wasn't in the mood to drop that much coin but they did look very nice. Maybe in a few years. I guess the down keeps the air from circulating, keeping ol' Boyle and his law at bay. I'm amazed how light and compact my Big Ag is. It's taken the weight and the bulk of my overnight pack down a lot. The REI Sub Kilo I bought helps too.

[Scott Card]

My canyoneering partners asked me about my pad and I actually told them not to buy one but rather to get a big agnes. I am not a big snow camper any more but I tend to still be in the desert in the winter. The down filled pad is a luxury item and too spendy even for me. I just happened to score one but I must say, the thing was very warm and comfortable.

[Cirrus2000]

... The stuff sac even has some padding in it to be sued as a pillow...

Ummmm, lawyer?

[stefan]

(generalized) freudian slip

[Win]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their input. I have been busy on line spending my hard earned money. I've taken most of your advise and it's looking good. So far:

REI Half Dome tent: Like that it's freestanding, easy to assemble.
Coleman 25 Deg Ash Canyon bag. Heavy as all get out. Wouldn't want to pack this thing! Should be nice and comfy by the Jeep.
Big Agnes 15 degree pad. I want to get a Thermarest, too. Thinking Base Camp.

On this weeks agenda: Stove & Lantern. Going with Coleman for the car camp thing.

Win

[Alex]

Gear online shopping is half the fun of going camping!

[moabfool]

Big Agnes has come through again. I went down to The Swell over the weekend to do Forgotten Canyon. I slept on my Big Agnes in sub-freezing temps and it didn't lose any pressure. I didn't have a piece of foam under me or anything. I'd have been right down on the rocks on my Therm-A-Rest.

I'll post a TR when I get some time and/or get the internet at home.

[Scott Card]

... The stuff sac even has some padding in it to be sued as a pillow...

Ummmm, lawyer?

Opps, busted again. Maybe that Freud fellow had something there.

By the way, my pad was really nice in Heaps. Very warm and soft.

[mroy]

I LOVE my big agnes pad. Everyone I know who used to use thermarests and have tried big agnes' don't ever go back. I may be totally burned out at the end of a long day backpacking, and I might have to do a little more puffing to get the big agnes inflated, but the great sleep is worth it. I question the worth of having the down insulation in the pad though because blowing it up always introduces moisture inside, and the down is just going to be more surface area for the moisture to stick to and down is pretty worthless when it's wet. It might take a while to get to that point, but if that does happen, then what? Plus if you're not using a big agnes sleeping bag with the pad to complete the system then you already have some mashed up insulation between you and the pad. Anyone seen any real test data to support the down in the inflatable pad?

Cool thing I found out when I was looking for a hole (my own fault for laying on it on bare slickrock last week in the grand canyon) I held my pad up to the setting sun to shake some water I was using to find the hold off of it, and I could see that tiny hole no problem. Doing that will save so much trouble if/when I get another hole. I've slept on it about 30 times and this is the first one I've gotten.

The north rim campground is free again this winter. It got down to 14 degrees when I spent the night there on Oct 22. The backcountry office on the north rim closes today. The Kaibab Lodge just outside the park remains open through the winter. If the highway is closed you can always try one of the dirt roads just outside Fredonia that go to the more western portions of the park since portions of that area are at lower elevations.

[tanya]

The north rim campground is free again this winter. It got down to 14 degrees when I spent the night there on Oct 22. The backcountry office on the north rim closes today. The Kaibab Lodge just outside the park remains open through the winter. If the highway is closed you can always try one of the dirt roads just outside Fredonia that go to the more western portions of the park since portions of that area are at lower elevations.

I was wondering if it was free again. The article I wrote for the St. George Today Magazine for November was on the North Rim and all the info I could find online said people needed a permit. Last year when we went though it was open and free. November is my favorite time of year to hit the North Rim. I agree about the North Kaibab Forest Roads. Those are fun to explore and the views of the Grand Canyon are just as nice as from inside the park boundries.

Highway 67 has been closing about mid-December the last couple of years, but it closes when ADOT can't plow it by one man in a 10 hour shift.

What trails did you do while you were there?

[mroy]

Highway 67 has been closing about mid-December the last couple of years, but it closes when ADOT can't plow it by one man in a 10 hour shift.

What trails did you do while you were there?

They always say it closes with the first significant snowfall early on - that's good to know it's really open a bit later than that.

I did Bill Hall -> Thunder River -> Tapeats -> Deer Creek Loop It's one hell of a trail.

Here's my TR:
http://www.mikepearce.us/PermaLink.a...a-258c0c1168d7
Here's the pics:
http://www.mikepearce.us/tapeats-deercreek/default.asp

[tanya]

They always say it closes with the first significant snowfall early on - that's good to know it's really open a bit later than that.

I did Bill Hall -> Thunder River -> Tapeats -> Deer Creek Loop It's one hell of a trail.

Here's my TR:
http://www.mikepearce.us/PermaLink.a...a-258c0c1168d7
Here's the pics:
http://www.mikepearce.us/tapeats-deercreek/default.asp

Excellent! That's quite the profile on that hike and quite the dirt tan! Last fall we headed to Thunder River and then once we got there we decided to do Deer Creek in the same day instead of following the rest of the trail ---- sadly we got just above Deer Creek and decided it would be dark when we tried to head out and then clear back to our camp spot on the Esplanade. I wish we would have had patience and had just hiked down Thunder River instead. That's a trip we will have to do again and spend the extra day.

photos of Thunder River
http://www.zionnational-park.com/ima...ms/index93.htm

The photos link to a trail report as well.

[mroy]

Cool pics - I think we've successfully derailed the topic completely ;)

If I were to do it again and plan on 3 days for it, again, I would camp in Surprise Valley and day trip it through the loop. Maybe head up the red wall the 2nd day if there was enough daylight. Without packs, the loop would be very easy to do, and I enjoyed camping in Surprise Valley a whole lot more than I did in Deer Creek, and both Tapeats sites didn't look all that great to me.

The haul to Deer Creek from Surprise Valley looks so easy on the topo. If you were just going to the spring it's only half as bad, like Thunder River, it's kind of the middle of the last big elevation drop.

[tanya]

Cool pics - I think we've successfully derailed the topic completely ;)

If I were to do it again and plan on 3 days for it, again, I would camp in Surprise Valley and day trip it through the loop. Maybe head up the red wall the 2nd day if there was enough daylight. Without packs, the loop would be very easy to do, and I enjoyed camping in Surprise Valley a whole lot more than I did in Deer Creek, and both Tapeats sites didn't look all that great to me.

The haul to Deer Creek from Surprise Valley looks so easy on the topo. If you were just going to the spring it's only half as bad, like Thunder River, it's kind of the middle of the last big elevation drop.

I am actually doing better than usual --- I am not talking about sex at least.

I would (I think? -- but I often change my mind) rather just stroll up and down Surprise Valley than lug a backpack there, but it does cut down on the trips if you are doing both Thunder and Deer. --- Red Wall --- Scott mentioned something once about the Red Wall -- I never got there? I really enjoyed camping on the Esplanade. We found a sandy spot that was not too hard and there were big hoodoos all around which were cool.

[mroy]

I am actually doing better than usual --- I am not talking about sex at least.

I would (I think? -- but I often change my mind) rather just stroll up and down Surprise Valley than lug a backpack there, but it does cut down on the trips if you are doing both Thunder and Deer. --- Red Wall --- Scott mentioned something once about the Red Wall -- I never got there? I really enjoyed camping on the Esplanade. We found a sandy spot that was not too hard and there were big hoodoos all around which were cool.

Yeah, you made it to the Red Wall - that's the rocky staircase section between the esplanade and surprise valley. The traverse trail between tapeats and deer creek is bad route finding while you're along the colorado, then a short steep climb up and then a nice smooth trail. Without a pack it shouldn't take more than two hours, with a pack three, so it's not much more to just do a loop then to just do one side.