Car Camping - Tent or Cot?

[Win]

I'm in the process of getting some equipment to go car camping. I'm wondering if a cot is a good idea without shelter over me. I guess my biggest concern would be rain/dampness. I'm thinking places like Toroweap, Bryce, areas around Escalante.

My main interest is to be on site for Sunset/Sunrise pictures. Most likely going solo.

Thanks,
Win

[goofball]

my choice has been a nice twin air mattress w/ battery operated pump. w/ down pillows. and lots of down comforter/sleeping bag covers. ahhhhhhhh... w/ a tarp for "in case of... " protection. that or a tent w/ a thermarest if rain comes.

[Scott Card]

This time of year I am a definitely a tent guy. I like to keep the dew/ frost off my stuff and have a warm wind free place to sleep and change in. Big tent, big air mattress (like goofball said) but with a thick foam pad on top of the air mattress (good as a Select Comfort), warm sleeping bag and pillow from home. Its better than my bed at home. I don't care for noisy tarps particularly if the wind picks up. Don't forget the alarm. I have slept soundly through too many sunrises 'cause I was buried in my sleeping bag, all warm and comfortable. I even have a tent heater for changing purposes. I'm a truly a wuss when car camping. Heck, why rough it when you don't have to carry it anywhere? I never understood why people live like they are backpacking, eating dehydrated food, sleeping on the dirt, when they are camped 10 feet from the car. Bring the kitchen sink if you have room!

[tanya]

I'm in the process of getting some equipment to go car camping. I'm wondering if a cot is a good idea without shelter over me. I guess my biggest concern would be rain/dampness. I'm thinking places like Toroweap, Bryce, areas around Escalante.

My main interest is to be on site for Sunset/Sunrise pictures. Most likely going solo.

Thanks,
Win

Do you have winter or summer camping in mind?

Camping at Toroweap is one of the best places ever! Its amazing there and you can drive almost to the rim! Last time I was there camp fires were allowed too. Camping at the North Rim Campground is free in the winter (or was last year when I was there) if thats on your list too.

Granted I dont usually car camp (usually backpack) but I have had the luxury of a car a few times. I like to take as little as possible because I don't like to put stuff away when I get home. If you have a vehicle you can sleep and stretch out in thats ideal ~imho~ .... If not then just make sure what's beneath you is soft and that you are warm so you sleep well.

Any cover will stop the rain, but another wetness concern is dew. To reduce condensation use an overtent cover or second layer. If you have not bought a tent yet, look into something like an integrated condensation curtain.

[Win]

Thanks for all the suggestions. You've helped me decide to scrap the cot and go wth a tent. I'll probably just get one that will double for some backpacking. I had ordered a 30 degree Coleman rectangular bag and will get a pad to go with it. I have to agree about eating well and having some comfort even while camping.

Most likely, I'll be doing this in the Fall and Spring. I mentioned Toroweap because I love it out there. The NR campground sounds good, Tanya. Any other suggestions for SW Utah?



Thanks,
Win

[Alex]

If you are doing a solo camping, may I recommend this tent:

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...ry_rn=40003461

I have gone through about 5 tents in the last 4 years. I do a lot of backpacking and car camping. I went through big tents to bivvy sacks and finally settled down on REI Quater Dome. I love the ventilation of the tent, the room inside and the double door. Also the privacy bottom lining is great for wind protection when you are laying down. The rain cover is great and I have never gotten wet in it.

The tent is durable enough for my 3 year old to try to break it but it's also light enough to haul backpacking with me. You can find it locally at REI and you can check it out before you buy it.

A twin mattress will fit nicely inside.

Some other gear I may recommend is a decent stove. Either a Coleman two burner propane stove or a JetBoil. I actually have both and take both of them car camping with me. I use the Coleman for cooking breakfasts and sometimes dinners and JetBoil to boil water for coffee/tea.

[stefan]

I even have a tent heater for changing purposes. I'm a truly a wuss when car camping. Heck, why rough it when you don't have to carry it anywhere? I never understood why people live like they are backpacking, eating dehydrated food, sleeping on the dirt, when they are camped 10 feet from the car. Bring the kitchen sink if you have room!

tent heater? that's new, never heard of one. is it safe with all that nylon?


so, i can be one of those people you're talking about scott. there are a couple of reasons why. you're thinking practically, but a natural and straightforward argument is "to get away from it all", including your conveniences and amenities of home.

now i will CERTAINLY agree with you about the dehydrated food ... that's for backpacking OR if you are away from stores for long periods of time and want to mix it up between canned/boxed/whatever. but for short getaways ... yeah, eat the prehydrated stuff.

another reason is to "keep it simple." when i go out camping/backpacking i just can't stand a ton of stuff being around, nor dealing with it. less is more.

as far as sleeping on the ground ... well, i love it. for the longest time i used NOTHING. no sleeping pad, cause i never wanted to carry one around backpacking (unless sleeping on snow). i just extened it to car camping. however, nowadays half the time i am car camping, i bring a soft flannel sleeping bag to place my sleeping bag on for comfort. this has essentially been as far as i would go.

i will admit, that within the past year, while backpacking or sleeping on the ground, for the first time i have noticed the pressure on my back/butt/hips. pressure to the point of starting to become uncomfortable. and currently i am considering the possibility of getting a thermarest of some sort. but for the past very long time have been very happy and comfortable using nothing at all. too bad, one large thing less to deal with!

i couldn't tell if you were joking or not, but i thought i'd offer some views from the otherside

i guess as long as it doesn't make noise and ruin other folks' experience, bring it along.

[Alex]

Local company http://www.tentheater.com/ They are located at I-215 and I-15 south intersection.

[tanya]

Thanks for all the suggestions. You've helped me decide to scrap the cot and go wth a tent. I'll probably just get one that will double for some backpacking. I had ordered a 30 degree Coleman rectangular bag and will get a pad to go with it. I have to agree about eating well and having some comfort even while camping.

Most likely, I'll be doing this in the Fall and Spring. I mentioned Toroweap because I love it out there. The NR campground sounds good, Tanya. Any other suggestions for SW Utah?



Thanks,
Win

Since you live in T-ville --- you want to go all the places I do. Zion of course rules!!!!

Winter backpacking is nice on the Southwest Trails in Zion like Scoggins and Chinle. Just make sure to go when the ground is dry. Even the day after a storm and the ground dries its tough on the feet. I hiked in there when there was big dry foot holes and just about every part of my feet were covered in blisters when we were done.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/snow.htm

I love Toroweap, but Lava Falls was not my favorite hike. Its the only thing I have done I don't want to repeat, but it is a so called trail to the Colorado River.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/toroweap.htm

I would opt for hiking around the rim rather than doing Lava Falls.

The North Rim itself has some backpacking. Just get out there before December. Highway 67 has been closing sometime in the first half of December the last couple of years. If you want some longer backpacks look at the Esplanade and Thunder River.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/gbpack.htm

My all time favorite Winter backpack is South Canyon.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/sou...and-canyon.htm

The GSEMN is good too until it snows. Then the roads become difficult. One of my favorite is Bull Valley Gorge to Sheep Creek and out Willis Creek.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/gsbpack.htm

[accadacca]

We rode motorcycles from St. George to Toroweap last year.

http://uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=328

[tanya]

Thanks for all the suggestions. You've helped me decide to scrap the cot and go wth a tent. I'll probably just get one that will double for some backpacking. I had ordered a 30 degree Coleman rectangular bag and will get a pad to go with it. I have to agree about eating well and having some comfort even while camping.

Most likely, I'll be doing this in the Fall and Spring. I mentioned Toroweap because I love it out there. The NR campground sounds good, Tanya. Any other suggestions for SW Utah?



Thanks,
Win

For gear just drop by at the Outdoor Outlet in St. George and tell Bo (my hiking partner) that I sent you. He will treat you well. He has managed the store for 22 years and knows gear well. Just tell him what you need and he will set you up.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/hik...-equipment.htm

[Win]

Nice TR on going to Toroweap. I was there a month ago and went out thru St George and back thru East Zion. Lots of driving but well worth it. That Lava Falls hike is just too demanding for this old man! Sorry to hear it wasn't a favorite, seems like alot of work.

Has eveyone done the Namoweap Petroglyph site? Alot of neat rock art and a good side trip from a day at Toroweap.

Thanks for the gear tips, I was considering that tent, like the idea of it being free standing. I'm not sure about a tent heater, I think I'd over sleep, too.

I've hiked out Coal Pits and Scoggins and know what you mean about mud and dried footsteps. That area took a beating during that deluge a month or so ago. I like the Dalton wash hike too this time of year.

I've been to the Outdoor Outlet and now will make sure to go back. Maybe even this afternoon. Thanks for the tip.


Win

[Scott Card]

tent heater? that's new, never heard of one. is it safe with all that nylon?

Yes, tent heater.... Big Buddy Heater complete with low oxygen shut-off. Toasty!

so, i can be one of those people you're talking about scott. there are a couple of reasons why. you're thinking practically, but a natural and straightforward argument is "to get away from it all", including your conveniences and amenities of home.

i couldn't tell if you were joking or not, but i thought i'd offer some views from the otherside

i guess as long as it doesn't make noise and ruin other folks' experience, bring it along.

I respect the argument and your thoughts. If you want to sleep on the ground, more power to you. Keeping it simple has its advantages but if I am going to set up for more than a day, I like a few comforts. Admittedly, my tent is a little fussy to set up but it is huge and a four season tent. But the air mattress and foam pad thing is about 3 minutes to set up and a very comfortable combination. Plus, I don't know how old you are but my bones ain't liking hard dirt. Also, an auto accident screwed up my neck so I need a pillow of sorts. Now, lest you think me more of a red neck car camper than I am, you should see the cut down version I am about to take into Heaps tomorrow. Sleeping system (pad, bag and bivy sac) under five pounds. Cooking kit including gas canister fits into a 2 cup -Cup. (snow peak iddy biddy stove, titanium cup and small canister - less than 8 oz.) Dehydrated food...etc. I did not skimp on my wet suit however. My harness and wetsuit constitute about 75% of my pack weight. When I need to go light, I do. When I am next to my truck, it takes only minutes to toss the stuff in the truck and put it away when I get home. So why not?

Getting away from it all for me is leaving the job, the phone, the computer, and every form of media behind. I don't bring music - I like the time to think and enjoy the sounds of my surroundings and yakking it up with those I am with. I was joking about the kitchen sink but I do like good food and I love the dutch oven or grill rack for steak and griddle for a hearty breakfast particularly this time of year. I am a guy who doesn't mind the fuss of setting up a camp. It is different from my routine and for this desk jockey, it is fun. If I got out more I may think differently. I have tossed the bag out prior to a canyon hike where we arrived late and needed an early start but if I am setting a base camp and taking off from there, I set up camp. A good night sleep and a good meal add a lot to the quality of a trip for me. Again, I guess I am getting old and like a few more comforts than when I was a scout sleeping on the dirt.

Stephan, you can always share my fire and my food. I may even let you use my garlic press! But really, minimalist camping has its advantages particularly when on the go and moving camp every day. But if not.....

One final story... I was at a camp (won't name locations or names) but one nice fellow was extremely proud of his little flat rock upon which he was cooking his polish sausage. He was fussing with placing little sticks under it to keep the fire going while the sausage smoldered on top of it. My partners and I had just finished a dutch oven meal of teriaki chicken, steamed veggies and cheese sauce, and three kinds of cake. Felt a little bad for this fellow cooking on a rock. Can I cook on a rock? yes, but why? We did share our cakes with him and the others present.

Bottom line, if it improves my sleep and meals, I am taking it.

[Scott Card]

Back on topic a little more, one of the best places I have been for a sunset was the ridge between Alcatraz canyon and Larry canyon in the Robbers Roost area. I don't know the current condition of the roads but that info should be available soon from some going out this weekend if I read the posts correctly. First night I was there, I stopped in my tracks for about a half an hour to watch it happen. Spectacular, particularly looking east.

[stefan]

Plus, I don't know how old you are but my bones ain't liking hard dirt. Also, an auto accident screwed up my neck so I need a pillow of sorts. Now, lest you think me more of a red neck car camper than I am, you should see the cut down version I am about to take into Heaps tomorrow.

well, i am 31. as i mentioned, i have been realizing this year that sleeping on the rocks is uncomfortable for the first time. i very much imagine that it's my age, and it's likely only going increase. so i'll probably get a sleeping pad. that's too bad about the accident.

redneck car camper ... no. and i was not speaking from higher moral ground i just figure whatever floats your boat. my reason is to do without what i can. but i am sure i'll change my feelings over the years. already i have about the pad.

as i said good food is a must. i even learned from some folks in alaska that you SHOULD eat gourmet while backpacking, even if gone for a week.

Sleeping system (pad, bag and bivy sac) under five pounds. Cooking kit including gas canister fits into a 2 cup -Cup. (snow peak iddy biddy stove, titanium cup and small canister - less than 8 oz.)

fantastic ... looking forward to the report/photos. have a wonderful trip.

When I am next to my truck, it takes only minutes to toss the stuff in the truck and put it away when I get home. So why not?

sure! i understand completely. you just asked why would anyone think otherwise ... i responded, that's all.

SteFan, you can always share my fire and my food. I may even let you use my garlic press!

thanks for the invite, that'd be nice sometime! but i warn you i do have food restrictions, but AM a big fan of garlic to be sure.

sorry for getting off track </tangent>

[tanya]

Nice TR on going to Toroweap. I was there a month ago and went out thru St George and back thru East Zion. Lots of driving but well worth it. That Lava Falls hike is just too demanding for this old man! Sorry to hear it wasn't a favorite, seems like alot of work.


My one hiking trip through Lava Falls was a nightmare. We camped out at Toroweap which was fantastic and the next morning we started down the lava rock on the trail. All was okay until we were near the bottom and I got stomach flu or something. It was horrible. This was a FREEZING cold December day at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. We started up, but it was getting late since I was going so slow. We had an hour of day light left at best. I did not really care at this point I was just trudging up the hillside slowly just thinking how sick I felt, but the thought of spending the night on the sharp, cold lava rocks did not thrill me. It was too rough a trail to try and make our way in the dark. I kept trudging up the trail and my partner took off to try and find a better way. Next thing I know he is hollering from the top and running down a hillside telling me to go that way. We made it to the top before dark. Whew! Anyway ---- I might do it again someday, but it will be a while!

Has eveyone done the Namoweap Petroglyph site? Alot of neat rock art and a good side trip from a day at Toroweap.


Not me! Where is it? I might run out there this weekend.

Thanks for the gear tips, I was considering that tent, like the idea of it being free standing. I'm not sure about a tent heater, I think I'd over sleep, too.

I've hiked out Coal Pits and Scoggins and know what you mean about mud and dried footsteps. That area took a beating during that deluge a month or so ago. I like the Dalton wash hike too this time of year.

I have not done Huber yet. Have you?

I've been to the Outdoor Outlet and now will make sure to go back. Maybe even this afternoon. Thanks for the tip.




Win

[Win]

No wonder you didn't enjoy Lava Falls! I've not done Huber Wash or the Chinle Trl, on my list for this Winter.

Namoweap is about 15 miles from Toroweap off Mt Trumbull Rd. If you're
coming out of Fredonia you would turn towards Mt Trumbull and go in about three miles, it is signed for the left to the Petroglyphs (BLM 1028), go in a mile or so and make a left to the parking area. You just walk down the old wagon rd. until you reach the rocks to your left. The art is all over the rocks, I think there are over 1000 petroglyphs in this canyon. They call it Billy Goat Canyon because of all the goat drawings.
Here's a link to some of my pictures, taken in April 2006.

http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/pictures?userid={8012E0D2-C758-4030-9867-768BBDEC87DE}

Win

[tanya]

Thanks for the directions and what outstanding photos you have in your albums.

[neena_jud]

Although you have probably made your decision, I thought I would weigh in:
REI does have good tents. My son has a two person tent that we considered borrowing for our trip starting tomorrow. But since we will be car camping some, and backpacking some, we opted for our own tent which is a three person from Mountain Hardware.
I agree that good ventilation areas are important. We are from Ohio, and camp in Kentucky frequently. Rain is a part of life around here. So is dew in the morning. Good ventilation areas reduces the amount of dew that forms on the inside of your tent.
As far as sleeping bags go: we have 0 degree rated down bags - lighter weight than synthetic bags, and we skip the heater. Just zip up the bags and snuggle.
We also have full size thermarest pads. It seems excessive for backpacking, but our bones need the padding. It also insulates against your body heat leaking into the ground (rock I presume). When car camping we usually bring a pair of old ensolite pads to put under the thermarest.
But that's just us. I can't imagine giving up sleeping in a tent in the middle of nowhere, so we might just have to figure out how to add more padding as time goes on.
Enjoy!

[moabfool]

We also have full size thermarest pads. It seems excessive for backpacking, but our bones need the padding. It also insulates against your body heat leaking into the ground (rock I presume).

I just bought a new pad and I love it. It's the Big Agnes Air Core pad. It's 2.5" X 20" X 76", although there are shorter options. It's not self-inflating, but the comfort more than compensates for that. It's 2oz heavier than the Therm-A-Rest ProLite 4 regular (1.5" X 20" X 72") but the mummy style of the Air Core is lighter than the Therm-A-Rest. It's as comfortable as my Princess Pad and much lighter. The princess pad is a twin bed-sized piece of 3" thick foam I take car camping. I put it on top of my cot and I sleep better than I do at home. The Princes Pad got its name the first time I took it on a trip. "Gosh princess! Maybe we'll put a pea under that thing to see if you can feel it." Needless to say I take the abuse with a smile.

I wouldn't use either a Therm-A-Rest or the Big Agnes for winter camping, at least not directly on the snow. My Therm-A-Rest loses all pressure when cold (see Boyle's Law for the particulars on the subject) and I end up with essentially nothing under me. I suspect my Big Agnes will do the same, although it's rated to +15 deg F. For winter camping I picked a piece of closed cell foam at Smith 'n Edwards (a giant surplus/camping store in Utah) for $8. It was 1/2" X 40" X 84" long. I just cut it in half the long way and now I have two 1/2" thick X 76" long pads that weigh next to nothing (with some nice, tough foam left over for some backpack straps). Not necessarily an option in Ohio, but it works for people on the Wasatch Front. Some ensolite would work well too or a cheapie blue pad from Wal-Mart.