New Zion Canyoneering Book

[Iceaxe]

Hey.... I just spyed this interesting little item.



Some interesting tid-bits: The new canyoneering book covers canyons in Zion and the adjacent lands. There are 9 on-trail hikes, 8 off-trail (non-technical) canyons, and 32 technical canyon adventures detailed, a few of which have not really been public before.

You can get the details and place an order here:

http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/view...t=IML000signed

So.... what do you think? Will a hidden gem be revealed? Anyone want to try and predict the canyons and routes that will be detailed?

[stefan]

[James_B_Wads2000]

Here is my guesses, feel free to edit in out one you dissagree on.

1. Imlay
2. Heap
3. Spry
4. Pine Creek
5. Birch Hollow
6. Behunin
7. Kolob
8. Eye of the Needle
9. Battle Creek
10. Boundary
11. Employee
12. Telephone
13. Echo
14. Mystery
15. Misery
16. Englestead
17. Das Boot
18. Keyhole
19. Orderville
20. Right Fork Great West
21. Goose Creek
22. Icebox
23. Poverty Wash
24. Hammerhead?
25. Bear Claw?
26. Too Wet?
27. Hidden from the Top?
28. Red Hollow?
29. Rock Canyon?
30. Kanarra?
31. Chasm Lake?
32. ?????????

[Iceaxe]

Chasm has some serious private property issues. I don't think Tom would post that unless he has worked out access.

Maybe Rock, but I don't think Tom was really impressed with the route he used. Rock would not be that great without the Parunuweap section. Doesn't mean he didn't do it or it won't be in the book.

Hammerhead I would just call a variation to an existing route. Probably not worthy of a section all its own.

I believe Too Wet also has some Private Property isses.

Goose is closed so I doubt he would include that. He would take the same beating Kelsey took over posting closed Navajo Canyons.

Tom didn't really like Red Hollow, it also now suffers from some private property issues, but the issues are not to difficult and they could be worked out I believe if someone wanted to spend a day talking with land owners.

[marc olivares]

Dear marc olivares,

Thank you for the following order placed on 09/21/06 at 22:09

just pre-ordered my signed copy
gotta throw my support to keep the beta masters goin'

[Millcreek 3640]

Guesses Galore? As to canyons? Tom's new epistle.

My curiosity relates the writing style and nuance of the guide. Hiking naturalist related piece or climbing style paint by the numbers? I got to edit portions - long ago, but imagine drafts have come and gone. Photos should be nice and text hopefully well organized.

For the newly initiated to zion, another guide to the backcountry. This along with Shane's zion text and another missive by a park employee. And the on trail and backcountry trail guides still sold.

But don't hold your breath, everything in tom's new piece and much or all that's in Shane's, will summarily be closely reviewed and then copied by by that shadowy "controversial" character residing in Utah County - in his forthcoming cyn tech II - MK. Yes, more taming of formerly wild country - cause for celebration or remorse?

Canyons: not listed by the "meek" moderator?
Hidden Canyon
Great White
N/Main Oak
Russell Gulch
Bulloch Gulch
Deep Creek (side cyn)
Jacob Canyon
Corral Hollow

* Eye of the Needle, and "Tom's" Battle Creek
are the same S Fork Oak Creek Cyn.

There was a good deal of debate by Park people, seasoned canyoneers and other interested parties that lobbied to include or not various corridors. I'll be interested to see what the off record comments are of various recreation and natural resource officials in the park.

Tom riding sky high; web site guide, canyon store, keeper of the canyons - bolts, slings, chains; canyon posting and now published author. I'm happy for him! His day in the sun and next year, shane can update his guide and then newly shine.

Hopefully Tom sells LOTS OF BOOKS and canyon gear!
Printing and publishing a book costs big time MONEY..and the size
of the audience that will view or buy the text - major, meager/minor or
a big unknown. I wish him economic viability. And I wish the newly
discovered and defrocked canyons plenty of vital health too.

SL SLC

[stefan]

But don't hold your breath, everything in tom's new piece and much or all that's in Shane's, will summarily be closely reviewed and then copied by by that shadowy "controversial" character residing in Utah County - in his forthcoming cyn tech II - MK. Yes, more taming of formerly wild country - cause for celebration or remorse?

hmm, i don't know if "tame" is exactly the work i would use to describe the effect of the books and descriptions of michael r. kelsey.

you try to suggest that this land is no longer wild ... the land is as it was before, perhaps with some additional trails and some damage and wear. what HAS changed primarily is what is in our minds. if you call this tame, so be it. however, i consider taming something far different from becoming more familiar with it. by bolting up a canyon or placing ladders it's most certainly possible to 'tame' a canyon. but by giving information about a canyon, especially as cursory as that given by MK, one is hardly changing the canyon or the land itself [aside from tire tracks, foot prints and the damage by such traffic ... okay yeah garbage, fecal matter, and other stuff too but,] ... only the way your mind perceives the canyon is fundamentally being changed.

to suggest that knowledge of the land tames the land is a human centric view. rather we are taming our notion of exploration of the land, but not the land itself. there is a major difference here.

i think the most compelling argument against the approach of michael kelsey is that it removes the mystery and the unknown. what are the obstacles, does the route go, what does one need? does it tame? no. i don't equate loss of mystery with taming. Course it does lead you to wonder about the rest of the unknown and in some sense it could promote mystery, but he seems to be aiming for a comprehensive tome of everything great and pretty great. and one day, we will have excessive disclosure of these wonderous lands. some say we already have, others are happy with more information.

another example, steck and butchard reveal some of the most unknown routes in the grand canyon and their descriptions demonstrate that these routes are doable, if you can handle the difficulties ... however, i would NEVER consider the effect of such descriptions to have TAMED this terrain ... this terrain is as wild and as dangerous as it was before they wrote these descriptions. and doing these routes you're likely to be exhausted and/or scared.

[capn_blasto]

Arrrgghhh!j I don't know who this guy thinks he is writing a freaking guidebook to Zion which is already overloaded with permit systems, Gumbies dropping like flies. Like Zion needs more publicity? The Cap'n predicts trouble ahead. Probably from New Jersey!

[capn_blasto]

Hopefully Tom sells LOTS OF BOOKS and canyon gear!SL SLC

NOT! Let's hope the park refuses to carry it in the bookstore! What a freakin' waste of paper.

[Millcreek 3640]

A certain sign of ____, well Autumn I suppose.

A loss of IMAGINATION - how does it happen...so easily.
in this self-absorbed, self-centered, materialistic society of ours.

Imagining what another might have meant or felt,
Imagining what another sees or felt they saw,
and accepting that others might have another point of view.
Just amazing, this loss, of imagination (and care really)

FIRST -Tom Jone's Zion book sales:
A. Tom Jones is a friend who I care about.
B. I care about him, his health and his economic vitality.
C. I hope he sells a zillion books....truly!
D. But I care about Zion and the wondrous wild lands within and around.
E. So is there irony in ones wish - or is there another avenue
such that various interests can be served and preserved?
F. Maybe those million books can be sold to rest homes, and
aging adventurers can dream of days gone by.
G. Books could be sold to libraries and sit unseen on shelves.
H. Books could be sold to disabled veterans or accident victims
whose loss of limb prevents travel into technical canyons - but
still the book preserves a dream. Other examples abound.

Conclusion- Tom's book sales:

Maybe I KNOW (or feel) zion canyons are already over run with too many
canyoneers - the resource management and recreation planners are
at wits end - and so the benefit of another book? Well, I give Tom the
slack I hope he'd give me - I, we take another breath and move on.
I spend a whole lot more time canyoneering OUT OF ZION than
I did 4 years ago. Anyway, hooray for Tom, and let's protect the
resource of Zion Canyon too! (can you imagine that?) Yes, I hug Tom
and care about the resource of Zion Canyon too. crazy aye?

SECOND - TAMING WILD LANDS
Or better - now stated - taming ones thoughts and feelings?

Amazing having person A tell person B how they supposedly see and feel. And providing a diorama - cognitive showing of how one should see, feel and speak. My language diagrams and metaphors don't need to match an others when I talk about wild lands being trampled and then
to suggest - "Oh it's mostly mental? Oh humpty dumpty sat on a great wall...

I sense some have not much of a clue as to what I was "hinting at."
Mostly the physical but very much the mental too - wild lands.
And so there was dodging and denial and lack of insight by some,
when they announced how I should describe and see this promotion public land debate?

Well, so much for imagination - I try to divine what others say and feel.
People love to speak, but can they listen?

Disregard the flawed human psyche for a minute. Scan the far reaches of the land and resource.

In our recent colorado plateau age ancient native americans - set up routes, storage, living quarters and left waste - in some corners, corridors were tamed.

The pre and post WWII uranium boom lent vehicles, maps, bulldozers, machinery and then the inquisition of ubiquitous roads all over the formerly wild colorado plateau - more taming. A legion of authors post WW2, Stegner one of the chief protagonists - romanticized the whole of the CP. And then Abbey launched Desert Solitaire and folk crept from all corners of the US to see and experience the CP. State's travel bureaus touted routes, new highways were developed and exposed and ranching interests plowed more roads into untrammeled corridors. Fast forward to
Steve Allen's three texts, Kelsey's countless mountain and desert texts,
the internet, digital imagery, electronic bulletin boards and then web sites by folk such as shane and tom. More bodies, more foot steps, more machinery, more impact on the fragile land - and canyons.

Still - disregard the mental and look at what's happened to the land,
every decade since 1940 up to the present.

Folk like Dennis Turville ventured into Kolob, Imlay, Goosecreek in the 60's.Bolts appeared and in small part the wildness disappeared. Deer, Cougar, raptors ventured into some of these corridors, but otherwise evidence of humans prior to this was nearly non-existent.

Visit any region - Escalante, San Raphael, Robbers Roost, White - Dark Canyon. Roads, cattle, sheep, ranching and some mining all impacted the land. But the tight corners of technical canyons, mostly wild and mostly non visited. And then Allen, Kelsey....

Are there exceptions to this proliferation of promotion and it's impact on public lands? And does the exception swallow the whole, and suggest that if promotion in one corner preserves the land, then promotion by all must do the same? Well, I don't imagine!

The land, the resource takes a beating in some corridors - all because of promotion. Conversely some points and vistas are promoted, and the land seems to preserve or at least mostly heal year after
year.

If one spends time in corridors where he/she senses the land barely
impacted and healed then that view certainly will mentally opine
that promotion has done little to mar the resource.

But imagine, spend time in country that formerly had NO user trails, NO Black skid marks on walls, NO deep rope cuts in the navajo sandstone. Visit a watery canyon corridor that had NO ATV's, No horseback riders and NO NOLES or Outward bound visitors. And then come round a corner in an an obscure Escalante canyon and wala - there is Steve Allen with an entourage of a mere 12 other souls tramping in front and back country - and this was back in the 80's.

Zion planners balance social impacts, resource impacts and safety concerns when they look at the "users" scrambling all over the front and backcounty landscape of zion.

And increasing other land planners in other corridors are doing the same. Ask them privately, "Is the land impacted by the likes of internet canyon promoters, allen, kelsey, shane, tom or others alike?" I've sat and listened in park, blm and forest service offices. There are some VERY strong views.

Now as to the flawed human mind. What are the images and feelings one conjures in perceived wild vs. trampled lands. And how much does experience, perception and expectation come into play?

If I visit the moon after marauding moon men have trampled that place for a thousand years, will my perception slide to the point that I still say and feel it is wild?

Standing in the backcountry of the Maze - Canyonlands, and two young Europeans come round the corner - they gape in awe, "this is wild - like another world - just incredible." But then I tell them, No it's not like it was 20 years ago. Oh well.

The mind will ALWAYS be a variable amongst us humans. And we will see, feel, perceive and transmit our own private and often times selfish point of view. The horseback rider with a train of animals announces they are in God's country. ATV riders launch by the hundreds round Factory Butte. As the sterling sunset fades they stand and salute - more of God's country.

I visited the Wind Rivers a few weeks back, spent half my time, off trail above the timber line in rough stark terrain. I know others have crossed this territory but still it had the LOOK - and to ME the feel of Wild Country.

Kudos to the human heart and mind. Can we not only embrace others but have a reverence for the land and landscape that we adore? If it is beaten or abused, let it rest!

But then that clarion call and a legion of lemmings arrive at a new canyon - I/we want to experience this new canyon - yes new canyons year after year. Got to feed the frenzy, feel the pulse, all in search of the holy grail.
What's the mindset on this mannerism counselor? The zest for exploration, a maddening lust for something new that transcends the stale, or following the crowd?? - and who cares about the consequence? (what
consequence many would say.)

And to the legion of public land promoters.
I simply accept and mostly enjoy the curious quad
of Allen, Kelsey, Shane and Tom. All are so bright,
so inventive, so interesting, mostly fun, full of laughter,
full of life, and always full of surprises. I consider
Shane and Tom as friends. I respect and accept
who they are.

I don't understand the cognitive mapping of any other.
And I truly don't know an others heart or temperament
that well.

I do know that it takes lots of listening, listening,
and more listening before I really sense the intent and
direction of an others words and lines. Other times quick
intuition seems to solidly remind.

Anyway folk, I don't have this wild lands, timing, requisite mindset
and promotion panoply figured out. 10 days ago I had a most
splendid time visiting two canyons on the upper zion plateau.
We had a most splendid camp, great food and plenty of jolly
laughter after we'd exhausted ourselves over two days. Descending,
ascending, descending, ascending. Like a skiers 1,000 - 2K vertical.
No kidding - at times it plumed the depths of exhaustion. Still I saw
the event for what it was - two very good days - and recognized
what it wasn't - anything much more than just, two good days.

Three weeks ago at Mirror Lake in the High Uinta's I joined with
Dick Carter and Margaret Pettis and about 40 other High Uintas
Preservation Council members. When we concluded our meal,
chat and discussion we walked a quarter mile to the east, stood
on the edge of a cliff - while I shot photos - and then all initiated
a howl - beckoning wild wolves, wild critters and the re-birth of
wild lands in the High Uintas ecosystem. No wolves howled back
but there was a most lively human spirit on display.

And yet as we walked back I heard some campers sitting nearby announce.

"Oh, what you folk did is so weird." Yes, we were a parade of flawed humans - wishing and willing that day - nothing more.

I spent part of last eve with two partners who I'd joined with two weeks
ago - we were all still feeling the glee - and hoping weather holds
so we can enjoy more. But we also enjoy parts of work, our community,
our friends, our faiths and adore our families - but that gravity, that darn
pull it's always prompting - nature the outdoors, I can hear the howl.

Yes, good to be alive, to see & feel the outdoors - if that's where
the pull and your heart often takes you.

And that "newest legion of footprints" on former wild lands? It's either there or it's not - and it's a physical fact or merely a figment of ones (wild) (mental) imagination.

SL in SLC

[stefan]

SECOND - TAMING WILD LANDS

zing! zing! and flowery zing!

i simply opined that my interpretation of the word tame was likely different from yours. i didn't quite presume to deliver to you the meaning of your message. the word tame simply struck me. i offered a different point of view. metaphors, imagination, and listening are great things ... zing yet again.

sorry for my myopically literal interpretation and sharp tone, i was frustrated with work at the time. i simply thought the word tame was too strong to equate with physical impact on the land. furthermore i thought that for some it may reflect externalization, that is, projection of the effect on the mind to the land itself.

[Iceaxe]

Anyone received a copy of this book yet? If so, how about a short review?

[Scott Card]

Nope, still waiting.......

[marc olivares]

i got a chance to thumb through Tom's book at IME today.
they had just gotten a few in while we were standing there talking to Scott.
looks like a great beta source....

cant wait until mine comes in the mail

[stefan]

got mine in the mail yesterday.

VERY nice book. well written. nice introductions!!, great descriptions, excellent maps. the b/w photos are great and there is even an interlude of tom's wonderful photoswild in color! the book also includes a nice section on selected accident reports.

it has a nice balance between more advanced on and off trail hiking and tech canyoneering. it is augmented by variations to a number of hikes, whose presentation is simple and effective. the tech canyoneering descriptions are concise and well organized.

highly recommended

[tanya]

got mine in the mail yesterday.

VERY nice book. well written. nice introductions!!, great descriptions, excellent maps. the b/w photos are great and there is even an interlude of tom's wonderful photoswild in color! the book also includes a nice section on selected accident reports.

it has a nice balance between more advanced on and off trail hiking and tech canyoneering. it is augmented by variations to a number of hikes, whose presentation is simple and effective. the tech canyoneering descriptions are concise and well organized.

highly recommended

Which canyons and Trails did he put in the book?

[marc olivares]

Which canyons and Trails did he put in the book?

well now Tanya, youre just gonna have to buy one to find out...
(actually to many to list)

got mine in the mail yesterday too, very nicely put together.
the Das Boot story made me laugh.

[stefan]

but if you do get a copy of it tanya, at the very beginning there is a wonderful chart of all the hikes in the book with interesting information about them ... something authors like mike kelsey and steve allen have avoided doing.

[tanya]

Which canyons and Trails did he put in the book?

well now Tanya, youre just gonna have to buy one to find out...
(actually to many to list)

got mine in the mail yesterday too, very nicely put together.
the Das Boot story made me laugh.

Bo has one for me this morning, so I should see is in a few minutes when I meet him to hike today. I like that Das Boot story... Scarey but funny since he lived!

[tanya]

but if you do get a copy of it tanya, at the very beginning there is a wonderful chart of all the hikes in the book with interesting information about them ... something authors like mike kelsey and steve allen have avoided doing.

Yes, I think that was a last minute add. Someone in the Canyons group that proofed it strongly suggested doing it. Was it Hank?