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08-09-2006, 09:16 PM #1
wonder why cavers are so secretive?
here is a recent post from another forum. names have been modified since I have not asked permission to post the letter here :-)
Just FYI,
(name withheld) and I went to (cave name witheld) today and had a great time. We saw most
of the cave and were impressed again at the decorations and the
marvelous pits. Screaming Skull Falls is still in good shape and most of the
skulls and bones are still there. We did not see any major damage to the
cave from previous trips. The rope up the climb and down the final pits
is there and in good shape. there is a knot about half way down tying
off a wear spot (you probably already knew that). The register however
was not in good shape. The tube itself is ok but the inside materials
were shredded. It appeared to be on purpous. After the shredding,
everything was wadded up and dumped into the bottom of the tube. The tube was
very wet inside. There was only one readable note (see included
picture. The one discouraging thing we noted was that some one has dumped a
large amount of spent carbide on the floor of the final pit. There was
also the remains of a flashlight broken all over on the floor of the
final
pit. We also noted that someone had left a spent light stick and
several fire hose rope pads in two places in the cave where they are
useless. The bolt that was placed years ago with the webbing loop part way
down the first drop is about ready to pull out. It is also rusted badly.
Just one more note. There are some really tiny articulated skelletons
in this cave. They must be baby mice.
--
Caver (name witheld)
Now on to my breif rant...
If you guys want to know about the caves and have our trust, then tearing up registers and dumping carbide in caves will not help with your cause....
niether will leaving behind busted flashlights....
neither will leaving behind light sticks....
you get my point.
End rant....
.... for nowI'm not lost... I'm just GeoCaching
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08-09-2006 09:16 PM # ADS
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08-09-2006, 09:54 PM #2Originally Posted by caverspencer
So, the name of the cave was mentioned here, making it more publicly known? I'm not sure that's the cause of vandalism.
If I go to a cool place, I might mention the name to somebody. But giving detailed directions is the next step, along with a detailed description of what to expect.
On the other hand, if somebody wants to find a new cave in the area, they can just ask the locals, and easily find the place to go. In my opinion, web forums are among the last places that most people look for secret information. The locals will sometimes spill their guts, I've experienced this many times.
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08-09-2006, 10:22 PM #3
Fortunately the "locals" only know so much.... The best caves have been discovered by cavers and only cavers know of the location. hence the reason they are still the "best" caves.
I never said it was because the name was mentioned here.
There have been at least a couple of rescues of very experienced climbers from the cave. Fortunately no one has been seriously hurt, the problem has lied in people not knowing how to get back out, or thinking they could do it with make shift ascending systems.
If your going to go caving save yourself the trouble and do it right, cavers don't bite, we welcome people to come survey virgin pristine cave with us. there is nothing better than the mystery of a new cave that has never had a human footprint in it before.I'm not lost... I'm just GeoCaching
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08-10-2006, 06:48 AM #4Originally Posted by Sombeech
Originally Posted by caverspencer
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08-10-2006, 07:56 AM #5
Yes the cave is well known, I never said it wasnt.!! IF it wasnt well known we wouldnt be here having this converstation about it!
Why is everything a debate with you guys???
Carbide - "calcium carbide Ca2C, it reacts with water to form the gas acetylene used as a lighting source by cavers and miners. "
from http://www.caves.org/member/mfraley/
"Welcome to The Carbide Caver. Through the years, the carbide caplamp has been known as a symbol of caving, and until recent years, it was the most popular form of underground lighting by far. However, carbide caplamps are becoming less and less frequently seen underground. Production has dropped enough that new lamps have almost disapeared from the caving market. This website was designed to help newer cavers get introduced to the world of carbide caving. However, this site will give little attention to belt-generator styles of acetylene "ceiling burners" since they are still widely produced and easily obtainable. The Carbide Caver will help you find a lamp, help determine a reasonable price, tell you where to find repair parts, and how to keep the lamp operational. Credits are given to all non-original graphics, and a general bibliography is provided. All original graphics are by Kara Hodge. "I'm not lost... I'm just GeoCaching
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08-10-2006, 08:21 AM #6Originally Posted by caverspencer
Originally Posted by caverspencer
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08-10-2006, 08:32 AM #7Originally Posted by caverspencer
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08-10-2006, 08:44 AM #8
YOu are exactly right there are cavers that are morons too.... Oops did I say that outloud!
On one of my very first caving trips I learned just how hyporcrytical some cavers are. We came out of the cave and were changing and next thing I know one of the guys was throwing dead batteries in the bushes and cigarett butts on the ground. He heard it from all of us about why would he think that was ok. Pretty stupid, he had the knowledge to bring all the garbage out of the cave, but then to chuck it in the bushes, aahhh that really got to me.
To Udink, I dont have a problem with you. Why do you think everything I say is targeted at you??
Come on guys, cant we all just get along...
My point of the post was as an example of why cavers are so secretive. Caves are very senistive environments. If somoen is willing to do it right they will know of more caves than they can visit.I'm not lost... I'm just GeoCaching
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08-10-2006, 09:56 AM #9Originally Posted by caverspencer
Originally Posted by caverspencer
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08-10-2006, 11:07 AM #10
Does anyone on this fourm even know what cave I am refferring to???
I'm not lost... I'm just GeoCaching
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08-10-2006, 11:10 AM #11
Keeping caves a secret is warranted, I would think. Although I don't understand it, every wild (ie non tour grouped) cave that has been well known to the public has been valadalized it seems. Every single one that I'm aware of. No exceptions. It's strange, but true. I never have figured out why.
Medussa used to be awesome (my dad was first to explore it), now it is completely wrecked. Unfortunately, I never got to see it before it was wrecked. :evil:Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.
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12-09-2006, 11:04 PM #12Originally Posted by caverspencer
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12-10-2006, 08:20 PM #13
Re: wonder why cavers are so secretive?
Originally Posted by caverspencerI wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself.
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12-10-2006, 10:01 PM #14
Re: wonder why cavers are so secretive?
Originally Posted by caverspencer
.... but don't bring that whining secret shit around here..... cause I'm not buying it.... I've played the secret games for years and I have discovered a few things to be true....
1. The only way three people can keep a secret is if two of them are dead.
2. There is no secert cave, canyon, yada, yada that you can't get if you really want it.....
3. Since the advent of the internet secrets are now measured in dog years.
4. No such thing as a gated cave if you own a come-a-long or a port-a-power
now I will climb off my soap box
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12-11-2006, 05:19 AM #15
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Location
- Just a few miles from Zion National Park
- Posts
- 8,456
~pout~ I did not do it!!!
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02-14-2007, 09:58 PM #16
Re: wonder why cavers are so secretive?
Don't be a douche.....
Because the way I understand it he took his ball and bat and went home and is now trashing uutah on other forums.
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02-15-2007, 06:17 AM #17
Do you know what forums?
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02-15-2007, 06:21 AM #18Originally Posted by jumar
Spencer kind of went off about not being able to hold his tongue about uutah and referring to the site as "spam" and the sites operators as deceitful."My heart shall cry out for Moab..." Isaiah 15:5
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02-15-2007, 08:52 AM #19Originally Posted by DiscGolfDivers
Maybe you could say im gullible and that would explain my tone on UTAG.I'm not lost... I'm just GeoCaching
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02-16-2007, 09:46 AM #20Originally Posted by caverspencer
Then you became a classified inactive member. UUtah needs moderators to be active, provide good info, and maintain some healthy traffic. It's a pretty busy job, and is more than deleting swear words and insults.
We're sorry it didn't work out. As far as giving us a membership list, I am not familiar with any of this. I think you're referring to the yahoo names that are available to anybody in the group once they sign up.
As for now, I wouldn't rule out any future possibilities, we'll just have to see how it goes.
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