The "Squeeze Tragedy"

[rockgremlin]

Not to hijack the Sandthrax thread, I'll post here.

Shane claims that what happened to the Squeeze is a "tragedy."

A tragedy to whom? To the 5 die-hards that could've done it without bolts? Who cares? Let those die hards go do Sandthrax and the other 1000 canyons that are too tough for the average canyoneer.

Way back in the day when the Squeeze had zero bolts it only benefitted a small handfull of folks (namely Steve Allen and his buddies). Now numerous people can enjoy the canyon.

Which is better - benefitting a few die-hards, or benefitting all?

[stefan]

hmmm, i dunno, with this line of reasoning we could turn the entire swell into a national park (has been proposed on multiple occasions, btw) and pave the roads, have visitor centers, parking lots, permit system, etc...

this way it doesn't only benefit those who are willing to get out into the more primitive lands, but it benefits the whole of national park adventurers.



it seems that if it can be done within reason and without bolts, that should be the way that it's kept. either that or with minimal bolts, i.e., only those deemed necessary. i guess the question is how many are truly necessary to do it reasonably?

[rockgremlin]

it seems that if it can be done within reason and without bolts, that should be the way that it's kept. either that or with minimal bolts, i.e., only those deemed necessary. i guess the question is how many are truly necessary to do it reasonably?

Yes. I agree. The Squeeze admittedly is ridiculously bolted. There are bolts above drops of only 5 - 10 feet. And not just one bolt, but a whole garden of bolts. Stupid!!

Most canyons (95%) don't require any bolts at all, just a little ingenuity and some know-how.

[nat]

it seems that if it can be done within reason and without bolts, that should be the way that it's kept. either that or with minimal bolts, i.e., only those deemed necessary. i guess the question is how many are truly necessary to do it reasonably?

Yes. I agree. The Squeeze admittedly is ridiculously bolted. There are bolts above drops of only 5 - 10 feet. And not just one bolt, but a whole garden of bolts. Stupid!!

Most canyons (95%) don't require any bolts at all, just a little ingenuity and some know-how.

Yeah, I did the squeeze about a month ago. I thought that there were about 3 drops where the bolt stations were reasonable; the 2 longest raps, and the rap just after the second long rap. For these it would be a real pain to do with natural anchors. Because of the pools, you would have to carry down rocks from drops above. However, we were able to avoid using almost all of the other bolts by downclimbing or fairly simple sequencing/jumps. At the 2nd keeper pothole that is fixed, we did a pack toss. I think that it would be reasonable to remove some of these bolts.

[ajroadtrips]

I'll argue my point using a climbing analogy:

Take Example Crack, a popular crack climb. To protect it, you use trad climbing skills.

What if I'm a sport climber though? Should I be able to bolt it so that it is now within my skill level to climb? Or, should I learn how to trad climb? I would argue you should learn the skillset to climb the routes you want to climb.

I view this as the same idea in canyons. Many consider part of the challenge in building anchors, and part of the beauty of canyons in seeing them in their natural state. If you want bolted canyons, choose bolted canyons from the guidebook. If you want non-bolted canyons, choose them.

If someone bolted Example Crack, I could still climb it trad and choose not to clip bolts, but the asthetics are gone, and the route character changes.

Who decides if it get's bolted? My view is if it has been done or could be done reasonably without bolts, it doesn't/didn't need to be bolted.... (Unless the canyon has changed significantly.)

deserthiker

[Iceaxe]

FWIW: I understand "The Squeeze" was first descended solo by SA over a weeks time. Ropes were fixed until an escape route could be identified. Then the process started all over again with the next section of canyon. He left the canyon at night. This is all second hand from a mutual friend so take it with a grain of salt.

As for bolting everything into submission..... what are you going to do when your skills improve and you have nothing challenging to descend?

[rockgremlin]

..... what are you going to do when your skills improve and you have nothing challenging to descend?

That's like asking the fat lady what she's gonna do when they stop making ice-cream. I'm not saying I love bolts. I'm actually against them. What I am saying is that as far as the Squeeze is concerned, it is never going to revert back to it's pre-bolt days so we may as well just recognize the good it is doing instead of lamenting how it is not as it once was.


I agree with Deserthiker - I believe bolts are appropriate under reasonable circumstances - like the bird's perch in Heaps, the rap station half-way down Orderville, etc. Otherwise, go get some skills before you bust out the Hilti.