View Poll Results: How to handle illegal immigration?

Voters
25. You may not vote on this poll
  • Send all illegals back and make them apply like everybody else

    12 48.00%
  • Guest worker program with possibility for legal status over time

    11 44.00%
  • Amnesty for all

    2 8.00%
  • Make illegals pay a fine, and then legalize them

    0 0%
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Thread: Immigration Issue

  1. #1

    Immigration Issue

    Here is a touchy subject, however, it is a HOT HOT one recently. What are your feelings on illegal immigration? I will say, I know that many jobs (such as field workers) would not be desirable by many others in the job field today, and many of these workers may be the reason that some foods (as well as many other products) are as cheap as they are, but it also gives employers the ability to mistreat the workers because the are not registered. Does that mean that I support illegal immigration? No, I do not, however, seeing where we are at, I do think that some sort of guest worker program may be feasible, and workers could be employed when needed based upon needs. All workers would be documented. I don't really totally agree with a blanket green card for all illegals though. There has to be some penalty for breaking the law, otherwise it will just encourage more and more illegal immigration. Also, what does it say to all the people from other countries who have been waiting in line like everybody else trying to get in the legal way?

    Yes, this country was found by immigrants, and I do believe in others being able to work for a better life, but, I just believe that there has to be a procedure to it, and documentation as well.
    ~Jason

    Man who run behind car become exhausted...

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  3. #2

    Re: Immigration Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by derstuka
    Yes, this country was found by immigrants, and I do believe in others being able to work for a better life, but, I just believe that there has to be a procedure to it, and documentation as well.
    This is true. People need to realize that we are not opposing foreigners from coming here. We just want it done legally, like my ancestors did, and most likely yours.

    We're not racist, and we're not "USA extremists", we just want a procedure for this issue.

    There are many issues that make people angry, such as jobs, insurance, medical care, education... But one thing is for certain. To round everybody up and begin to send them back would be an impossible task. It would require more armed forces than we currently have employed, plus transportation that we do not have available, plus the cost of an operation like this would be through the roof.

    So now what? I say we fix the border first, then see what to do with the illegals. Atleast we would fix the "leak" in the dam, and eventually be able to deal with the water. We can't try to export them before fixing the border, or the numbers wouldn't go down.

  4. #3
    I just don't understand the stance that many of the illegals are taking lately by taking to the streets in protest. You are not legal citizens of this country -- what makes you think you have the right to make any demands of our government? Go get legal status and THEN (and only then) you have every right to protest.

    Its kind of like prison inmates who think they should have every right that the average person living outside of prison has. UM - NO!! YOU LOST YOUR CIVIL PRIVALEGES THE MINUTE THOSE CUFFS WERE SLAPPED ON YOUR WRISTS!!
    It's only "science" if it supports the narrative.

  5. #4
    Wow what a controversial subject, I want in.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockgremlin
    I just don't understand the stance that many of the illegals are taking lately by taking to the streets in protest. You are not legal citizens of this country -- what makes you think you have the right to make any demands of our government? Go get legal status and THEN (and only then) you have every right to protest.

    I have to say I disagree. At some point you have to talk about human rights. These people are living and working here, and are the backbone of this economy. Some have been living here most of there lives. I think it is within there rights as human beings to have a voice in the debate that will determine the outcomes of there lives. Legal is a relative term. I don

  6. #5
    [quote=James_B_Wads2000]I have to say I disagree. At some point you have to talk about human rights. These people are living and working here, and are the backbone of this economy. Some have been living here most of there lives. I think it is within there rights as human beings to have a voice in the debate that will determine the outcomes of there lives. Legal is a relative term. I don

  7. #6
    by Theodore Roosevelt,

    "In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people"

    It's as clear as day to me.
    If they want to join us then do it legally, if they want to march the streets waving the flag of Mexico, just keep marching til you're south of the border!

  8. #7
    I have to agree with Sombeech and fortycal on this one. If any person regardless of ethnicity wants to come into the states to live a better life, do it legally. The other thing that drives me crazy about this whole thing is when people come here and expect us to learn their language so they can communicate with us. If they are going to come here hell at least learn English and how to communicate. I have nothing wrong with people that come here legally to live a better life, everyone should have that opportunity to progress. Just do it legally and don't complain that you can't communicate with us because we don't speak your language.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by James_B_Wads2000
    Legal is a relative term.
    I'll have to remember that one the next time I'm pulled over for speeding.

    [quote=James_B_Wads2000]I don
    It's only "science" if it supports the narrative.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fourtycal
    Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all.
    Exactly. I love images like the one below with the protestors waving their "home" flag.



    They have pride in Mexico, but they do not want to be there...

    If they want to be Americans, then for Hell's sake, try to be American!!! This involves certain procedures (which are undecided at the moment), but procedures nonetheless. Sure, we all came from immigrant ancestors, EVEN the "native" americans. Most of the scholars believe that even THEY traveled to this continent at sometime, from somewhere.

    If amnesty is immediately granted to these illegals, what will be the restitution paid to the LEGAL immigrants? Do they get a refund?

  11. #10
    Two wheels from Hell live2ride's Avatar
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    Go to mexico and do what they are doing, they would poke your ass with a cow prod and throw you in jail, so why is it correct to pass a law to protect those that have already broken a law?



    Two wheels are better than four, keep the rubber side down.

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by live2ride
    Go to mexico and do what they are doing, they would poke your ass with a cow prod and throw you in jail
    Either that, or make you the main attraction in the Donkey Show.

    Amnesty will not stop the incoming flow of illegals, it will only encourage it. The real problem is solving the border issue NOW, then worry about what to do with them later.

    Let's say water is flooding into my basement, (this may be realistic for some of you these last few days). It's coming in like a garden hose. I'm going to stop the leak first, then break out the Shop Vac. If I get the shop vac first, the water will keep coming in. At some point, don't I have to fix that leak?

    We would like to hope that these immigrants are all honest, hard workers. But when the first thing they do in our country is break the law, that's a pretty rough start.

  13. #12
    [quote=James_B_Wads2000]Wow what a controversial subject, I want in.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockgremlin
    I just don't understand the stance that many of the illegals are taking lately by taking to the streets in protest. You are not legal citizens of this country -- what makes you think you have the right to make any demands of our government? Go get legal status and THEN (and only then) you have every right to protest.

    I have to say I disagree. At some point you have to talk about human rights. These people are living and working here, and are the backbone of this economy. Some have been living here most of there lives. I think it is within there rights as human beings to have a voice in the debate that will determine the outcomes of there lives. Legal is a relative term. I don

  14. #13
    Resident Southern Belle savanna3313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fourtycal
    by Theodore Roosevelt,

    "In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people"

    It's as clear as day to me. If they want to join us then do it legally, if they want to march the streets waving the flag of Mexico, just keep marching til you're south of the border!
    Agreed. Someone emailed me those words of Teddy Roosevelt earlier in the week, and I thought "Amen!" Here is an email I received with a reverse twist to this situation This will probably add fuel to the fire, but there is a lot of truth to it. The sad part is that most of the illegals here are hardworking people looking to make a better life. They take jobs that most American citizen would consider beneath them. The situation is nothing new, it's just coming to a head now.

    Dear President Bush:

    I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and
    I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the
    border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few
    arrangements. I know you can help with this.

    I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration
    quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do
    here.

    So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm
    on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the
    following:

    1. Free medical care for my entire family.

    2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might
    need, whether I use them or not.

    3. All government forms need to be printed in English.

    4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.

    5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.

    6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the
    flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.

    7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

    8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy
    access to government services.

    9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort
    to learn local traffic laws.

    10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo
    from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police
    officers speak English.

    11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on
    my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any
    complaints or negative comments from the locals.

    12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and
    don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.

    13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and
    never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place
    on the economy.

    I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things
    for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that
    Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
    However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail
    hunting with your V.P.

    Thank you so much for your kind help.

    Sincerely,

    Mr. US Citizen
    Never regret anything that made you smile!

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by savanna3313
    Quote Originally Posted by fourtycal
    by Theodore Roosevelt,

    "In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people"

    It's as clear as day to me. If they want to join us then do it legally, if they want to march the streets waving the flag of Mexico, just keep marching til you're south of the border!
    Agreed. Someone emailed me those words of Teddy Roosevelt earlier in the week, and I thought "Amen!" Here is an email I received with a reverse twist to this situation This will probably add fuel to the fire, but there is a lot of truth to it. The sad part is that most of the illegals here are hardworking people looking to make a better life. They take jobs that most American citizen would consider beneath them. The situation is nothing new, it's just coming to a head now.

    Dear President Bush:

    I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and
    I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the
    border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few
    arrangements. I know you can help with this.

    I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration
    quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do
    here.

    So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm
    on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the
    following:

    1. Free medical care for my entire family.

    2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might
    need, whether I use them or not.

    3. All government forms need to be printed in English.

    4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.

    5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.

    6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the
    flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.

    7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

    8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy
    access to government services.

    9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort
    to learn local traffic laws.

    10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo
    from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police
    officers speak English.

    11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on
    my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any
    complaints or negative comments from the locals.

    12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and
    don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.

    13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and
    never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place
    on the economy.

    I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things
    for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that
    Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
    However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail
    hunting with your V.P.

    Thank you so much for your kind help.

    Sincerely,

    Mr. US Citizen

    This is beautiful Savanna! Too bad it is actually speaking the truth.

    You need to add that anytime someone complains about my illegal immigration status, they are an ABSOLUTE racist. I have the right to use the word racist for anytime that I do not get things my way, regardless if I am breaking the law or not, and if anybody ever complains about anything else that I do, they are racist as well.

    People call the "Minute Men" border patrol watch group all racists all here in San Diego. All they are doing is helping the government enforce a law by calling the border patrol when they see people crossing illegally. Man, what bastards, I cannot believe that they would do such a thing!

    So many of these protestors do not understand that if you were to knock down the border enforcement completely it would be close to utter chaos for the economy, schools, crime, poverty, and so on....don't ya love protestors that simply just jump on the bandwagon just because everybody else is, without any idea of possible resolutions? All you need is a Mexican flag and to yell the word racist over and over if anybody disagrees.
    ~Jason

    Man who run behind car become exhausted...

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech
    Quote Originally Posted by live2ride
    Go to mexico and do what they are doing, they would poke your ass with a cow prod and throw you in jail
    Either that, or make you the main attraction in the Donkey Show.

    Amnesty will not stop the incoming flow of illegals, it will only encourage it. The real problem is solving the border issue NOW, then worry about what to do with them later.

    Let's say water is flooding into my basement, (this may be realistic for some of you these last few days). It's coming in like a garden hose. I'm going to stop the leak first, then break out the Shop Vac. If I get the shop vac first, the water will keep coming in. At some point, don't I have to fix that leak?
    I agree totally with fixing our borders, always have, but that has such strong opposition that I fear it is near impossible to be done. Right now, it is as easy as just walking across a field, as the vast majority of the border has no fence whatsoever.

    Hell, last year we (California) almost passed a law to give driver's licenses out to illegals here.
    ~Jason

    Man who run behind car become exhausted...

  17. #16
    Nice post Savanna.

    I'm sick and tired of hearing the argument that "Mexicans do manual labor that Americans normally wouldn't do." That's BULLSHIT! In the first place, how degrading is that to Mexicans? How is that an argument in favor of illegal immigration? That statement in itself is extremely degrading to Mexicans! It basically says that the only thing they are good for is doing the shit jobs that the privaleged U.S. citizens don't want to do.

    Another thing is....consider this....guess how much income tax illegal immigrants pay on the wages they earn? ABSOLUTELY NADA! NOTHING! ZILCH!! You and I and every other LEGAL Mexican pays income tax. Illegals do not. Again I ask.......IS THIS FAIR?!!

    Go ahead - fire away with your racist comment towards me. All I'm advocating is fair and honest immigration. If you want to come to the U.S., then by all means come.....just play by the rules like everyone else!!
    It's only "science" if it supports the narrative.

  18. #17
    Resident Southern Belle savanna3313's Avatar
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    Never regret anything that made you smile!

  19. #18
    It's only "science" if it supports the narrative.

  20. #19
    Resident Southern Belle savanna3313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockgremlin
    Quote Originally Posted by savanna3313

    No need for an attack on me, or anyone else here who states their opinion. The funny part is that for you to zero in on that one statement makes me wonder if you even read my entire post. That was just a very small piece of it. If you go back and read it again, you will see that I was agreeing with Fortycal's post. I feel that the illegal immigrant situation is out of hand and needs serious correction.
    No I DID read your entire article!! I was agreeing with you. I wasn't being cynical or sarcastic at all. In addition to agreeing with you, I wanted to also add that I was sick of hearing that illegal emigration was good because Mexicans do menial jobs.
    I'm having a "Duh" moment here....my apologies. I just realized (before I saw your next post) that you weren't being sarcastic back to me, so I removed the post.
    Never regret anything that made you smile!

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by savanna3313

    Dear President Bush:

    I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and
    I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the
    border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few
    arrangements. I know you can help with this.

    I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration
    quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do
    here.

    So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm
    on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the
    following:

    1. Free medical care for my entire family.

    2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might
    need, whether I use them or not.

    3. All government forms need to be printed in English.

    4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.

    5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.

    6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the
    flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.

    7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

    8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy
    access to government services.

    9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort
    to learn local traffic laws.

    10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo
    from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police
    officers speak English.

    11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on
    my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any
    complaints or negative comments from the locals.

    12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and
    don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.

    13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and
    never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place
    on the economy.

    I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things
    for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that
    Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
    However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail
    hunting with your V.P.

    Thank you so much for your kind help.

    Sincerely,

    Mr. US Citizen
    Wow I love this email you got I totally agree with it could not be put any better way

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