What makes you mad about Mountain Bikers?

[live2ride]

Ok I am asking for it on this one, I am and avid Mountain Biker and most of the time on my rides I will share the trail with a few hikers, as always I stop and get off the trail and try to be as courteous as possible, I try not to scare people; however, I know that many hikers don't like the bikers and I was just wondering why and what can we (mountain bikers) do to make it better on the trails for both of us. Thanks, let the slamming began.

[Udink]

Ok I am asking for it on this one, I am and avid Mountain Biker and most of the time on my rides I will share the trail with a few hikers, as always I stop and get off the trail and try to be as courteous as possible, I try not to scare people; however, I know that many hikers don't like the bikers and I was just wondering why and what can we (mountain bikers) do to make it better on the trails for both of us. Thanks, let the slamming began.

Honestly, the hikers that feel the way that you described are probably the same people who want to turn everything into wilderness, do away with "mechanized" travel altogether, and do away with eating meat.

I do a fair amount of hiking, and a little mountain biking, and I have no problems with either. I would guess that any hiker that has a problem with mountain biking also has an agenda to push, one that is rooted in strong emotions and has no logical basis.

[live2ride]

I do a fair amount of hiking, and a little mountain biking, and I have no problems with either. I would guess that any hiker that has a problem with mountain biking also has an agenda to push, one that is rooted in strong emotions and has no logical basis.

Great response, I was thinking on the same lines I guess that can go both ways and some mountain bikers scare the crap out of people and don't share the trail. Thanks!!!

[shaggy125]

I don't own the trail and neither do you, we all do. There are people who want to push their opinion on everyone (we probably all do it to some degree for something we feel strongly about) but I'd guess most people respect that some people prefer to walk, some prefer to ride, some prefer to drive. I don't mind bikes when I'm hiking and I don't get what all the fuss is about when it comes to them. How much damage do they really do, and how much do they really ruin my "wilderness experience"? Come on Bad bikers ride where they aren't supposed to. Bad ATVer's also ride where they aren't supposed to. Bad hikers carve their names at the top of Angles Landing (my favorite is the big BYU carved in the rock ). Bad canyoneers carve their initials in Leprechaun Canyon. I'd say most people in each of these groups respect the rules and love the land they recreate in. Why does a small minority have to ruin it for everyone and create "biker haters" or "ATV haters" etc... Can't we all just get along? (Did I just try to push my opinion on everyone? Oops.)

Eric.

[Sombeech]

It's probably just the same old turf wars that Jeepers vs Bikers vs Hikers vs Horseback riders get into. Then, there's even 4 wheelers vs motorbike.

It's the people like most of us who are "well rounded" in multiple hobbies that seem to have the best understanding of one another.

[live2ride]

It's probably just the same old turf wars that Jeepers vs Bikers vs Hikers vs Horseback riders get into. Then, there's even 4 wheelers vs motorbike.

It's the people like most of us who are "well rounded" in multiple hobbies that seem to have the best understanding of one another.

So what do you think about Dogs and Bikers/Hikers, they scare the shit out of me when they are not on a leash?

[Sombeech]

So what do you think about Dogs and Bikers/Hikers, they scare the shit out of me when they are not on a leash?

There are different opinions about leashes. It's good to let the dog run around and get exersize, but I think leashes have their place as well when you are in a public area. I'm not a dog owner, so I don't have much say in it.

[Udink]

So what do you think about Dogs and Bikers/Hikers, they scare the shit out of me when they are not on a leash?

I had a run-in with a pit bull once. I was 15 years old and walking home from a friend's house, when one walked toward me on the sidewalk and wouldn't let me pass. It growled at me, seemed fairly aggressive, but I was finally able to skirt around it by running out into the street and I didn't stop until I got home.

Ever since, I've been leery of dogs, but I can almost always tell a friendly from an aggressive one. I have no problems with people letting their dog off-leash out on the trail, but I am fully prepared to defend myself if I run into an unfriendly dog out there. That's how I feel about dogs anywhere, not just on the trail, but I do frown upon people who don't follow leash laws and such while they're out with their best friends.

[Mtnman1830]

never had any problems with mountain bikers. Sometimes get upsest about giving them the right of way, but they do have just as much right on the trail as I do.

Then there is the dog issue

I like dogs. But my hell, pick up after them. Nothing worse than enjoying a hike, taking in the sights and you start to smell something.... ah crap, damn dogs.....

I noticed yesterday that there were a lot of people out with their dogs. There were people with their little "machines" to pick up the prizes their best friends leave in the middle of the trail, but TAKE THEM BACK TO THE TRAILHEAD WITH YOU AND THROW THEM AWAY, DON'T LEAVE THE BAG OF DOGSHIT ON THE TRAIL

[stefan]

[quote="Udink"]

Honestly, the hikers that feel the way that you described are probably the same people who want to turn everything into wilderness, do away with "mechanized" travel altogether, and do away with eating meat.

First of all there IS something to be said for wilderness. I think the legal concept of wilderness was invented because we as a society know that we are not responsible enough to leave some land alone. With all of our expansive land in the west we take for granted what true "wilderness" is.

i am reminded of a friend of mine who worked for arches/canyonlands (as sar and such) and was talking to a german guy about the wonderfully untouched land of utah, and my friend looked at him, a little unsure. The guy responded, utah is about the size of germany, in germany we have 80 million people, in utah you have 2 million people....

a guy i work with is from austria, he also finds it absolutely amazing to be able to drive countless miles and see very little human development. i am not trying to CONVERT you all to be wilderness freaks, my point was there IS something to be said for wilderness, and we as a society will likely only come to appreciate it very far in the future, europe has many years on us, but the population's growing fast. Nice thing about the desert is that it's not immediately inhabitable, but all of those valleys nestled in the wasatch will be developed before we know it.

okay, enough about that....

about bikes, yea, i think there are a lot of people who don't like yielding to the bikes, even though it's supposed to be the other way around. but let's be clear, it's just more convenient to let the bikes by and get on their way. hiking is such a 'quiet' mode of travel also (aside from incessant talking), when bike comes by, espcially on a dry, rocky trail, the noise is noticeable, and the interaction is different. some people are not comfortable when biker is coming to pass by. i wouldn't make the direct analogy with trying to walk and drive a car on the same road, but maybe it's similar to biking on the same road with a car(which i do everyday)....i've gotten used to bikers on trails. as long as bikers don't tear up trails when they are muddy or bike by superfast in disregard, i got no problems with them. However, i don't think it's a horrible idea, in SOME cases, to have some very popular hiking trails closed to bikers either. Also bikers do a fair share of trail maintainance since their impact is fairly strong.

but let's be fair, everyone pushes their side, from guns, to motorized travel, to wilderness, to anti-meat. ALL of these perspectives have merit and have their place. it's just terribly easy to pin the blame on the "other side."

I agree with shaggy, we all need figure out how to get along. However, I don't subscribe to the idea that we as humans should do whatever we like where ever we want either.

[Scott P]

I am a strong wilderness advocate and I mountain bike too. I've never met anyone whom hated bikers, but assume some are out there.

As long as bikers are responsible, and don't do things like go fast on hiking trails or ride down mud covered slopes, there are few complaints. Some of them do ride fast though, and not always on purpose. Bikes are still way better than ATV's.

What I have met is bikers that hate 4wd vehicles. I have had two confrontations, and was doing nothing wrong on purpose.

One was on the White Rim Road. Some bikers were pissed that 4wd's were using this great "mountain bike trail" and were pretty vocal about it. Even though I was parked and not even moving when I met them, they said that 4wd's stir up too much dust for them.

The other time was at Gemini Bridges. I guess this one was my fault because I didn't think about it. Anyway, I parked my vehicle on Gemini Bridges. It was winter and not many people around. Anyway, I wanted to get a picture of my vehicle on the arch, so I hiked around to the other side of the canyon to get one. I guess I was gone a half an hour or so. Some mountain bikers were pissed that they had to wait too long before getting pictures of them with their mountain bikes on top of the arch (without a vehicle in the picture). This one I understood, but it was an innocent mistake, so they calmed down after a few minutes and when I apologized.

Those are my only two confrontations with mountain bikers while doing any outdoor activities (hiking, 4wd, etc.).

Unleashed dogs; don't get me started on that. If you are on a popular hiking trail, you should leash your dog, even if it is "friendly". Clean up after it too. On Mt. Belford on July 4th last year, my three year old son and I were eating lunch by the trail. A big dog ran up the trail and stole my son's lunch. He was crying and it scared him. The owner came up behind and passed us without saying a word. No, "I'm sorry", or anything. He was lucky I was a nice guy, otherwise I would have thrown the dog off the mountain. During December 24 last year, we had to turn back on our hike, because our 18 month old daughter got dog crap all over her pants. Shame on the owners.

[accadacca]

...and do away with eating meat.

I think that hikers can kiss my grits when I am on my bike!




















j/k

[Shan]

I like to bike and hike, both with my dog. I tend to go places where it's not so busy with families and strollers. But I am very aware that there are people that dislike dogs, bikers, or hikers. So I just try to be as courteous as I can. My dog is a GREAT trail dog - of course, she's my dog, but I have gotten positive comments from strangers on trails. I keep the leash handy, if it's a non-leash area. She knows OFF so when we let hikers by, she moves off the trail and lets everyone go. She has no prey drive, so wildlife is not a problem. She paces herself, never runs ahead. When yeilding to a horse, we get way off the trail and I hold her collar. I try to get her to run around the yard for a poo before I take her on a ride/walk. But I do not leave her poo or poo bags sitting in the trail either.

With mutli use trails, there's always going to be someone who doesn't like something, but we can all try to be courteous.

[Scott P]

I tend to go places where it's not so busy with families and strollers.

Just to make sure I didn't misprotray something, the trail I was on is not busy for families and strollers. It was a 14,000 foot mountain in Colorado.

Nice to hear your dog is well behaved, and that you clean up after it(?). Hoefully it wouldn't jump up on a three year old in the name of being "friendly".

[Shan]

I tend to go places where it's not so busy with families and strollers.

Just to make sure I didn't misprotray something, the trail I was on is not busy for families and strollers. It was a 14,000 foot mountain in Colorado.

Nice to hear your dog is well behaved, and that you clean up after it(?). Hoefully it wouldn't jump up on a three year old in the name of being "friendly".

Don't worry, I was commenting on myself! I didn't even see your post but I will now.

Gina does not jump on humans. I don't think that's appropriate/acceptable behavior. That's what training is for!

Yes, I bike with a doubly wrapped up poo bag in my bike pack (outside pocket).

I don't let my dog approach children either. Not because I don't trust her, because I know others won't like it. That's why we do the OFF [the trail] command, I grab her collar or to a SIT/STAY, and I let kids/people pass.

My dog wouldn't dream of taking food from a person (OK she might dream about it but would never act upon it!). That was rude of that dog owner, and to not even say sorry! That is bad.

I am a good pet owner and I have a well mannered dog that I have put alot of time into training her, but not everyone does what I do I realize that. I try to be a good example. And what bothers me is that I can still get lumped into the stupid dog owner category by the public, because there are so many stupid dog owners out there.

He was lucky I was a nice guy, otherwise I would have thrown the dog off the mountain.

It should have been the owner you were contemplationg throwing off the mountain - not the dog! After all it's the owner who lets the dog know what is acceptable and what is not. They don't know unless a human has taught them.

[TreeHugger]

I would guess that any hiker that has a problem with mountain biking also has an agenda to push, one that is rooted in strong emotions and has no logical basis.

I dont think this is a fair statement. Just because one doesnt like having their hike interrupted by a mountain biker does not mean they "have an agenda to push", that's ridiculous. Yes, strong emotion, perhaps, but an agenda, I doubt it.

I am an avid mountain biker and hiker. I can see both sides of the debate. There are times I want and appreciate my peace and quiet and solitude on the trail and other times I dont mind "interruptions" - and what I feel like that day will dictate where I will go. I strongly believe that there should be multi-use trails and hiking only trails.

As far as dogs. Ugh. I cant stand being harrassed by dogs on the trail, because I dont like dogs. Yes, it's nice to have responsible owners that train their dogs well, but that seems to be the exception, not the rule. But, I can appreciate dog owners wanting to get out with Fido and enjoy the great outdoors, I have many friends that do this and I advocate for them, just keep your dang dog away from me.

[Udink]

I would guess that any hiker that has a problem with mountain biking also has an agenda to push, one that is rooted in strong emotions and has no logical basis.

I dont think this is a fair statement. Just because one doesnt like having their hike interrupted by a mountain biker does not mean they "have an agenda to push", that's ridiculous. Yes, strong emotion, perhaps, but an agenda, I doubt it.

I am an avid mountain biker and hiker. I can see both sides of the debate. There are times I want and appreciate my peace and quiet and solitude on the trail and other times I dont mind "interruptions" - and what I feel like that day will dictate where I will go. I strongly believe that there should be multi-use trails and hiking only trails.

My statement is completely fair. Obviously, the original question referred to shared-use trails (otherwise this would be a moot issue). Therefore, if you, as a hiker, are annoyed by an "interruption" from a mountain biker, then your agenda is that the shared-use trail should only be open to hikers. If the only reason you wouldn't want mountain bikers on the trail is because of a selfish desire to be alone, then that is a purely emotional reason, not a logical one.

Please note, I do not intend the use of the word "selfish" to be negative. There's nothing wrong with having selfish desires, but it's another matter to push them onto others.

Edit: I just noticed that I made a big mistake in my reasoning. I did not mean to frame it as "Emotional vs. Logical," since obviously the two are not mutually exclusive. To me, it's really a matter of "Emotional vs. Non-Emotional."

So, something like I don't like to share the trail with mountain bikers because it disturbs my tranquility would be a purely emotional reason, while I don't like to share because they tear up the trail and are a safety hazard for us slow-moving hikers would be less emotional. However, the latter wouldn't quite count for this debate, since I think we're talking about bikers in general, not just those who don't follow the rules.

[Shan]

I strongly believe that there should be multi-use trails and hiking only trails.

Well wilderness trails are only horses and foot traffic, so that's almost a hiking only trail!

[marc olivares]

As far as dogs. Ugh. I cant stand being harrassed by dogs on the trail, because I dont like dogs. Yes, it's nice to have responsible owners that train their dogs well, but that seems to be the exception, not the rule. But, I can appreciate dog owners wanting to get out with Fido and enjoy the great outdoors, I have many friends that do this and I advocate for them, just keep your dang dog away from me.

i absolutely agree

i could care less about mtn. bikers but it's the dog owners that consistently piss me off.

i, like scott, have 2 small children and hike regularly, and i'll kick the most friendly of dogs if they get near my children. not a route i would advocate taking, but if they get next to my kids off a leash, (as a parent) you have to expect the worst.
we were gardening in my front yard. my 2 year old was sitting by our front door w/ my wife and i 10-12 feet from her. a runner strolls by w/ dog off leash...and where does it go? yep right toward my kid. after some lovely words were exchanged, i've yet to see them run by my house again, but unfortunately, my little one freaks now when dogs charge her. in the neighborhood, trail etc.... YEP, dogs piss me off not Mtn bikers!

[Shan]

It seems dog owners and dogs are being hated equally. If someone hates dogs, do they hate just the out of control, untrained, unleashed ones - or just four legged furry friends all together? Because you know a good dog is as good as its owner who trained him/her. I think it should be the owner you're hating/glaring at/whatever, that is unless you just hate dogs every single one of them all together.

So would all you dog haters be pleased if I mountain biked with my dog while ON the leash - because that's what we do around town for our daily "walks." Yes she's that good she can run on a leash by my bike. It's just not the most practical because of the narrowness of the trail. I'm not going to keep my dog at home 24/7 while I go play, however.

What would make you all satisfied enough? (besides not seeing dogs at all) Obviously I want to continue enjoying the outdoors with "my little girl", but I don't want to be getting glared or swore at either.