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Thread: Utah lesser known classics

  1. #1

    Utah lesser known classics

    Thought someone here might enjoy this:

    http://www.summitpost.org/list/18143...Classics-.html
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

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  3. #2

    Re: Utah classics

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson
    Some of the Lesser Known Classics
    Not to split hairs or anything..... but if its not well known it is not a classic..... it might be and outstanding hike/climb/canyon..... but it is not a classic....

    Main Entry: 1clas

  4. #3
    WOW!! You put Aron Ralston to Shame!!

    Thanks for the link. Some real good stuff there.

    The images are awesome too. I really liked this one:

    "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown."
    -H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #4
    Not to split hairs or anything..... but if its not well known it is not a classic..... it might be and outstanding hike/climb/canyon..... but it is not a classic....
    Hence my "Unknown Classics" in quotation marks. A different kind of "classic", and the reason I wrote the below:

    Most of the time, the "Classics" are classics only because they are well known and easy to get to. [/quote]
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  6. #5
    I have to disagree on the "easy to get" to part of your classics.... In the climbing world history or literature plays the biggest part of what is considered a classic......

    A classic is a route that everyone would like to have on their resume.

    I would say that Kolob and then Bluejohn became instant classics the minute they make the front page of the morning news with death and disater. Both are good canyons but its the history that pushes them to classic standings.

  7. #6
    I have to disagree on the "easy to get" to part of your classics.... In the climbing world history or literature plays the biggest part of what is considered a classic......

    A classic is a route that everyone would like to have on their resume.
    I would still say that most of the classics are known as such, partially because they are easy to get to. Using the Bluejohn example, I still doubt that it would be considered a classic, if you had to backpack three days to get to it, but I could be wrong.

    Stone Donkey is somewhat similar in appearance to Trail Canyon, but a bit shorter. Trail Canyon is known as a classic, but Stone Donkey is not. Stone Donkey requires about 18 miles of "slogging" (plus a long 4wd road) to get there and back. Thus, it doesn't seem like it would become a classic any time soon, even though it is now in a guidebook.

    Would you agree somewhat?
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  8. #7
    Okay okay, you guys. Usually i am not too worried about the language
    people use when talking about things, but i suppose it's different when you
    write, in particular, on a website. The meaning of words is important, and
    in some sense i agree with shane, one should try to be accurate when
    possible, especially when one is making a strong statement, which you
    seem to be doing, scott. The hikes look very interesting and I'll definitely
    look into doing some of them. Have been thinking about Stone Donkey for
    some time now too. Thanks for the highlighting.

    I guess the phrasing 'unknown classics' *might* also suggests that maybe
    they are classics, but only to a select group, hence relatively unknown.
    But seemingly this also is not necessarily true (i can't say for sure though).

    Now i am not trying to harp on you or nothing, just got curious about it and
    was thinking that probably the easiest way to appease shane *might* be
    to use the phrasing

    "SHOULD-BE Classics"

    or something equivalent. I think this is precisely what you are intending to
    say anyway. That is, they are NOT classics, but you feel they SHOULD BE.
    And you appease shane as well, since you aren't claiming that they are at
    the moment(but i don't want to speak for you here).

    Just a suggestion. BTW, with stone donkey, i was thinking of approaching
    it from Hackberry. Do you think the upper approach is worth it? It's
    always nice seeing new terrain anyhow.

  9. #8
    Oh BROTHER!

    Way to quibble over semantics Shane!

    You can see his point, right? Why give him grief over his choice of words?
    "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown."
    -H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #9
    I guess the phrasing 'unknown classics' *might* also suggests that maybe they are classics, but only to a select group, hence relatively unknown. But seemingly this also is not necessarily true (i can't say for sure though).
    I am a select group, and they are well known to me.

    Anyway, "unknown classics" is my own phrase. Different people can call it whatever they want. I have my own phrases I use. People always look at me funny since I use the phrase "eating a squirrel" so much.

    Now i am not trying to harp on you or nothing, just got curious about it and was thinking that probably the easiest way to appease shane *might* be to use the phrasing

    "SHOULD-BE Classics"
    Since I am friends with Shane we are just discussing. I don't like "should be classics", because it implies should be crowded. Right now, these areas are not, but they may become so in the future, and that's fine. Of course, then I will have to post more "unknown classics". I just posted a few that could be enjoyed in the near future.

    Just a suggestion. BTW, with stone donkey, i was thinking of approaching it from Hackberry. Do you think the upper approach is worth it? It's always nice seeing new terrain anyhow.
    Round Valley Draw is cool. You could come from the upper end, and it would be nice. We came from Rock Springs Point, because it was both the shortest way, and new territory for me in the 1990's. Very scenic and with big views and (coug, cough), slogging. But I enjoy slogging in a scenic and little known area. Either way, you will enjoy it if you like scenic approaches. PS, if you look around, there are some more good hidden canyons in the area.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

    Anyway, "unknown classics" is my own phrase. Different people can call it whatever they want. I have my own phrases I use.

    Fair enough.


    Just a suggestion. BTW, with stone donkey, i was thinking of approaching it from Hackberry. Do you think the upper approach is worth it? It's always nice seeing new terrain anyhow.
    Round Valley Draw is cool. You could come from the upper end, and it would be nice. We came from Rock Springs Point, because it was both the shortest way, and new territory for me in the 1990's. Very scenic and with big views and (coug, cough), slogging. But I enjoy slogging in a scenic and little known area. Either way, you will enjoy it if you like scenic approaches. PS, if you look around, there are some more good hidden canyons in the area.[/quote]

    I have done Round Valley, and I agree, cool! One possibility I was thinking about was entering hackberry in the slot just down canyon from Round Valley Draw which MK describes, Booker cyn if i remember correctly. Then amongst other exploring, doing Stone Donkey slot as well, and exiting lower hackberry.

    hmm but i do love scenic approaches....

  12. #11
    I find myself calling stuff classic all the time that doesn't necessarily conform to traditional definitions of the word. For example, someone accidentally says or does something really embarassing, stupid, unexpected, or funny and I find myself always saying "That was classic." Like Scott, I do the the same thing with amazing canyons or hikes-- calling them classic even if I know that only a handful of people have done them and only recently.

    Words evolve (and the turns they take are quite interesting and illogical some times!). There is even a branch of study of the evolution of words called etymology. Fascinating stuff.

    It may be a misuse of the word, or maybe an unconventional use of it, but I know Scott and I aren't the only ones (mis)using it to mean:

    classic (adj.): something inspiring, memorable,and/or of exceptional beauty and quality.

    One of my favorite uses of the word classic, from Poe's poem Helen:
    "Thy hyacinth hair, thy classic face,
    Thy Naiad airs have brought me home "

    Now I'm rambling

  13. #12
    Okay i just have to do this, at the risk of being derided by the rock-ski-cowboy.....


    scott how about

    Not Classics


  14. #13
    I don't mean to bust Scott's chops..... just a personal pet-peeve of mine...... not every canyon is a classic..... a "classic" holds a special meaning to me. A route can be great, spectacular, outstanding.... but still not be a classic..... a route can also be a real turd but still might be considered a classic..... Behunin might fit the classic turd category......

    I used to tease Ram about something similar to this all the time. If you ever pay attention to his Ram Reports you will notice just about every canyon he has ever done is a "personal favorite"......

    One other note.... I would certainly NOT call Trail Canyon a classic...... its a great canyon but has nothing special that I would consider makes it a classic.

    A couple of canyons I might consider classics...

    Buckskin
    The Subway
    Zion Narrows
    Imlay
    Heaps
    The Black Hole

    YMMV

    Anyone care to add or subtract from my list?

  15. #14
    Here's a picture of some hijackers.



    This thread has been taken captive. Everybody remain calm, and you will not be hurt.

  16. #15
    The thread is titled "Utah Classics".... I fail to see where or how it was hijacked...

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe

    A couple of canyons I might consider classics...

    Buckskin
    The Subway
    Zion Narrows
    Imlay
    Heaps
    The Black Hole

    YMMV




    Anyone care to add or subtract from my list?
    Death Hollow?


    Americans are (in)famous for speaking in positive superlatives. "that was the best...." or "the greatest..." I am guilty of this too.

    I use ben's use of classic regularly as well, it's a very descriptive term, though it's clearly metaphorical.

    shane your list is clearly "Utah Classics" and, since zion has some of the most spectacular slots/narrows, it usurps one's definition of 'classic.'

    If you try to represent other regions as well, or different features, such as tight narrows, you prolly should include spooky/peek-a-boo as classics. How about Lep/Shenani? Can these be called "classic?"

  18. #17
    a "classic" holds a special meaning to me
    Me too.

    One other note.... I would certainly NOT call Trail Canyon a classic...... its a great canyon but has nothing special that I would consider makes it a classic.
    Some people consider Trail a classic. It is too close to a highway to be special to me. Few places close to a highway are places I hold special.

    The Black Hole
    I think the Black Hole is nice, but what is it that is that special? Trail is more fun, and many canyons are more beautiful. Still Black Hole is nice, in the same sense as the Black Boxes or Chute of Muddy Creek.

    Scenically, I can't imagine a more beautiful canyon than the Subway, or Right Fork so those are definately classics, and well known ones.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  19. #18
    The thread was titled "Utah Clasics" so I used that as my guide.

    Death Hollow probably ranks as a Utah classic.

    To me a classic doesn't nessasarily mean the "best" canyon.... to me it means the more famous canyon or to put it anther way..... if given a chance the canyons most people would like to have on their resume. This is why I say Black Hole is a classic and Trail is not. The Black Hole is much better known then Trail. The Black Hole also has a wicked history with at least four deaths that I know of......... and.... everyone I know wants or has the Black Hole on their resume.

  20. #19
    ..... if given a chance the canyons most people would like to have on their resume.

    Aah, that's exactly what I was trying point out with my "unknown classics page". Put out some good stuff, but avoid the ones everyone wants to put on their resume. Kings Peak is beautiful, The Cathedral, on my list, is way more spectacular, and not far away. Yet, it is Kings Peak everyone wants on their resume.

    This is why I say Black Hole is a classic and Trail is not. The Black Hole is much better known then Trail.
    It seems well know now (Trail), but how well known is "well known"?

    The Black Hole also has a wicked history with at least four deaths that I know of.........
    In that case of criteria, I-15 and Highway 50 are the real Utah classics.
    Utah is a very special and unique place. There is no where else like it on earth. Please take care of it and keep the remaining wild areas in pristine condition. The world will be a better place if you do.

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe
    The thread was titled "Utah Clasics" so I used that as my guide.

    To me a classic doesn't nessasarily mean the "best" canyon.... to me it means the more famous canyon or to put it anther way..... if given a chance the canyons most people would like to have on their resume. This is why I say Black Hole is a classic and Trail is not. The Black Hole is much better known then Trail. The Black Hole also has a wicked history with at least four deaths that I know of......... and.... everyone I know wants or has the Black Hole on their resume.
    My ideas:

    Lots of Zion classics. Heaps. Imlay. Kolob. Mystery. Pine Creek. Subway. Right fork.

    Nontechnical classics: The Narrows, Buckskin, Little Wildhorse, Death Hollow, Coyote Gulch & its Dry Forks. Amazing places that most everyone's heard about and many avid hikers would like to see them or have already and keep going back.

    Outside Zion I have done Neon Canyon, Black Hole, the Squeeze, and Quandary which would probably qualify under technical classics or are quickly reaching that status. It seems like every canyoneer wants to do these canyons once they get into the sport.

    Under the destined-to-be-classics/quickly-becoming-classics (these fall somewhere between "unknown classics" and established classics). I would say Alcatraz, Not Mindbender, MFWF Butler, Choprock (but its still an evil place), Lep and Shim qualify, among others that I haven't seen (eg HDH, Trail, Baptist). Shane's prize find (zero G) is quickly reaching this status as well.

    As far as personal classics go it seems that the possibilities are quite limitless and are obviously individual which is cool.

    I personally agree with Scott that exploring "unknown classics" is even better than the known ones because there are no people and its a bigger adventure. I think that even with the crowds, the famous classics are still worth seeing.

    To me, a classic canyon is any one that I would revisit over and over again throughout my life. Most of the popular classics qualify and some unknowns do too. For me the Narrows (top-down) isn't classic, because I thought it sucked and I won't ever do it again. Same with Bluejohn/Horseshoe combo and a few others that some people totally love.

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