Canyon Beta Swap

[Iceaxe]

helmets and bolts come to mind especially. being an adult who makes my own choices,

When you choose to not wear a helmet that is a personal choice and I could really care less if you want to take a chance on being spoon fed baby food the remainder of you life. Unless I have to carry your sorry butt out of the canyon.....

As for bolts that is NOT a personal choice. Once you have placed a bolt you have made the choice for everyone who follows. Even if I don't use the bolt you have removed my opportunity to see the canyon in a pristine condition. Also understand that other noobs are going to blindly use your bolt even if it is of poor quality, so you are excepting a bunch of responsibility. I just want all noobs to realize they are making a big choice for everyone when they place a bolt, its not just a personal choice.

Seldom do personal choices not impact others.

[hesse15]

[quote="Iceaxe:[/quote]
you nicked again
you bad

[icthys]

I think your wife woould slap you for a comment like that Jesse. You mentioned you like flyfishing.... ever been to the Wind River range in Wyoming? I am an amateur at the sport, but I love getting back country on some small streams and yanking them out like teeth at a dentist office.
P.S - is your wife outdoorsy? Would she be down with Canyoneering?
Reed

We're on a first name basis? Where do I know you from?

I've been to the Wind Rivers, it's been awhile though. I'm up in the Uinta's all summer and I love the backcountry fishing.

My wife is an outdoor girl. She's not sure what to think about the canyoneering thing, she has a hard time trying new stuff, but once I get her to try it, she'll love it.

oh, yeah, I doubt she'd be upset over a innocent sarcastic comment like that.

[Iceaxe]

you nicked again
you bad

I didn't nick the pic this time.... but I should have... if I had of nicked it you couldn't have taken it down.... I 'll get you next time...

[goofball]

Gee...Did anyone really say that to you? As for the helmets...we are advocates. We are selling that idea. Anyone without, that shows up in a picture on our forum, becomes an opportunity to "sell" our strongly felt safety stance on this issue. It's not a personal attack. As for the anchors...Again advocacy. We believe in the sport moving toward clean canyoneering. We advocate. Dissent is there and welcomed. We ain't Fasists. I enjoyed chatting and meeting and doing that wonderful canyon you soloed. It was a bold stroke, on your part. You took some ribbing about your choice of anchors, 2 only I believe. Everyone has different levels of comfort with danger. I am considered to have way above average tolerance for danger. You seem to have as much, maybe more. Not my place to judge. What I observed was some more conservative folks, older and with families, who took a genuine liking to you, who expressed concern for your level of risk taking. I get it all the time too. I feel grateful to have friends who care about me. We are both parents. We both have young children depending on us, you even more than I. We both have an obligation to the young ones to come home every time. This was never a pissing or spitting match about style and ethics. Sorry if you were offended. Got nothin but love fa ya brudder

Ram

i have been avoiding this thread because as soon as i posted i felt really embarrassed. stupid post... i think i just like to gripe sometimes. especially being, and always have been, a very solo person. group dynamics or group thinks are something that just kinda freak me out for some reason. the helmet comment was made to a friend, not me, but i know when they tell me something it is 110% the truth. i do not take the advocacy as a personal attack. again, i think i am just, no, i KNOW i am just very team solo & have always been slow to take advice w/out a little bit of offense being taken at the giving of it. definitely something i need to chill on. especially since i really like being around people & being abrasive is not an endearing quality. so for those folks who took a genuine liking to me, i offer my apology. but ONLY those who genuinely like me ! i just like to bark now & then. i got nuthin' but love for all as well !

jason.

[goofball]

but i still disagree on the bolts !

and for the record i prefer the challenge & excitement of bolt free. but as for impact it is no less obtrusive than lots of webbing slung around a rock, skid marks, & grooves cut in soft sandstone from pulling rope that will inevitably alter the character of that drop once water starts to follow that new chute and slowly enlarge it.

so AND

[Sombeech]

i have been avoiding this thread because as soon as i posted i felt really embarrassed. stupid post... i think i just like to gripe sometimes.

Aww, forget about it man. I've made an arse of myself hundreds of times here. I think the only thing we care about is that you're willing to chat, share info, and have a few laughs.

[Iceaxe]

but i still disagree on the bolts !
and for the record i prefer the challenge & excitement of bolt free. but as for impact it is no less obtrusive than lots of webbing slung around a rock, skid marks, & grooves cut in soft sandstone from pulling rope that will inevitably alter the character of that drop once water starts to follow that new chute and slowly enlarge it.

I consider everything you listed above to be bad, not just bolts. I strive to "Leave No Trace". Now we all know that is probably next to impossible, but it's still something to aspire to.

And if I can't actually "Ghost the Canyon" (leave absolutely no trace) I think the next best option is to leave as little mess as posible. Black skid marks and foot prints wash away rather easy. Webbing is easily removed.... bolts and rope scares are longer lasting so I consider them as a last resort type thing.