You knew it was going to happen eventually.
Attachment 96835
https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-...g71oCjhnrACIW8
Glad I’ve satisfied all of my AL summit desires.
Printable View
You knew it was going to happen eventually.
Attachment 96835
https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-...g71oCjhnrACIW8
Glad I’ve satisfied all of my AL summit desires.
What a joke.
I suspect the park system is licking their chops over how much $$$ they'll make on permit-less hikers.
So will the angels landing permit cover lower refrigerator?:haha:
Attachment 96840
BOOOOOOOO!
That’s all part of the Rim trail network. I’m willing to bet the AL permit will be regulated at the turn off from the Rim trail at actual AL.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
The article says the trail is "5 miles"...so I reckon they figure it to start from the Lodge. Are they gonna have a guard standing there to check permits? A guard at the top of the Wiggles? What about people passing thru?
So a few took a dive off the thing and now out of concern those that pay are going to be safe? The permit will protect them? We're any thrown or pushed off? Why not just close the thing permanently so no one will ever die "climbing" it again?
Perhaps they should have spent a couple billion dollars to clear all the rocks out of the first two miles from the bottom of the Narrows...'cause I see a hell of a lot of people struggling much more there than on the AL hike, right?
Well--hopefully they put in a tram from the bottom and a steakhouse on top.
Then maybe 2-3 ziplines off the top to various lower canyon locations.
Then dynamite the narrow section of the trail above scouts.
That should keep the pesky tourist in line.
Seriously, I've been up there, likely over 20 times in every season, including winter on ice.
These parks cannot sustain these visitation numbers, imo.
Make the whole park a permit, 300 people a day.
Permit entitles you to any area of the park.
Oh--and a roller coaster, every park needs a roller coaster, maybe off observation point to the main visitor center,
It could make a big loop just in front of angels landing so the steak diners could watch from their tables.
This would be a National park in the future, none of the silly stuff like hiking down canyons with ropes, yea, none of that, far to dangerous.
I for one am just grateful these caring folks who manage these parks are just looking out for our best interest.
I stopped bothering with Zion permits 15 years ago... never been stopped or bothered. No matter what happens from here on in I'm ahead of the game.
They will police Angels Landings permits this year and after that just use the permits as an ATM machine... same as the canyoneering permits.
At the Zion Rendezvous in '19 I had just rapped off Englestead with some friends and apparently 15 minutes later another group from the gathering arrived...mostly well mannered Mormon guys. Soon after they got there, a Ranger showed up with a young "ranger in training" and proceeded to ask for the permit with an attitude...insisted he smelled marijuana and there were one too many there for the permit. They say he was a real jerk...it's a good thing I wasn't there...because if pot HADN'T been smoked (and I seriously doubt it was with those guys...and who the hell gets high before making a 300' rappel?) I would have reamed that Ranger up one side and down the other. Seriously...those that know me are nodding their heads.
Anyway...in over 30 years and many, many trips done to Zion I've never been asked to present a permit. Never in the Narrows, never after Left Fork. Maybe I've been lucky?...but I've heard about a dozen or so horror stories of the authority figure waiting at the take out.
I have only canyoneered a handful of canyons in Zion as I loath the permit system BS, but I have done Pine Creek once and the gestapo was waiting on the road to see our papers. Of course I was still down at the swimming hole as some of our group were leaving and they ended up having to hike back down and get me to go up and prove that we were able to recreate on "their" land.
Been stopped once leaving Keyhole as well. Infuriating to have my wife and kids lined up and interrogated as he looks us and our permit over.
Neither time were they pleasant about it.
The only luck I have is bad.
FWIW - You don't need a permit for Englestead if you exit out the top as you're only inside the park for a short distance and none of it is technical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron
I used to have this argument with Ranger Ray all the time when doing Kolob and out MIA as the creek is the boundary and I never stepped on the north side of the creek.
Pro Tip - don't flash canyoneering gear and try to look like a tourist whenever possible. It also helps I speak German so whenever I have to deal with a Ranger I just speak German and act like I don't understand English.... Hahaha...
I wish they would quit calling rangers, "Rangers". They are police officers. They carry guns. They detain you. Rangers are nice people who are helpful, educate you, and protect you. The rangers at Zion are much like the moto-cops with the sole purpose of catching you speeding. I believe the moto cops have more of a legitimate function than do the rangers as they are currently operating. I have been asked for my papers multiple times. I now put my paper permit in the bottom of my pack and after a day of swimming, in and out of water, etc., when asked for my permit I hand them a wadded up mess of soggy paper pulp. For some reason they have never appreciated that. Once a ranger told me I had to protect the permit. I smiled and snickered a bit and told them, "um, no I don't". I have asked them if they want a dry permit why they don't provide a dry bag. Again, they don't seem to appreciate that question. I also inform them that they can simple radio the back country desk and find me on file if they really want to know. After all, the soggy wad of paper is all I have to give them. I've been accused of cheating the system but never got a citation. After one particularly offensive encounter and me challenging this ranger for about 30 minutes as to his authority, his lack of probable cause to accuse me of something that I didn't do, and the stupidity of the permit system, the result has been that I haven't received a lotto permit since. I'm pretty sure I'm on some list. :haha: I am going to try the Iceaxe foreigner trick next time. I speak Portuguese.
I know the "Mormon" guys you speak of well. Some were my neighbors. The only thing in their blood stream that morning would have been pancakes, eggs, bacon and milk. :lol8: I think I was assisting a group in Pine Creek on that day because when I got back to camp, I heard all about it. Byron, I really, really wish you and I would have been in that group. Knowing you and knowing my same propensity to get after constitutional violations by the government we would have been quite the tag team against these rangers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron
To be fair, I wouldn't go to Angel's Landing now if you you flew me there with a helicopter.
I first ascended it in fall 1986 and last time on Christmas day 2006...both times we were alone, but I could see the big change looming by then.
Last time I hiked nearby was on the way up the west trail to Behunin in 2014.
ZNP and Springdale have become too popular for their own good; I wouldn't rush there to help those greedy buggars if the place got flooded by a flash flood.
The US NPS really need to smarten up and smell the coffee and stop the monetization of the natural resources.
Rob
No kidding! That cop would have been sorry he walked up to that tree, that's for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Card
I don't mind them "doing their job"...but when I heard about the marijuana comment, it really upset me.