Navigator in CBS?

Hi all. I'm new here. GREAT site!!!

Got a question - self and friend are going into the CBS, Paw Hole, Cottonwood, White Pocket areas in May. Reading some log reports of folks who've been in there has got us prepared - we hope - but also a wee bit nervous. I should say that i'm not a total novice, having done both Elephant Hill and Sand Creek in Canyonlands in my now deceased '86 Cherokee 4x4. My friend is not quite as experienced, but is driving a Jeep Liberty to hopefully make up for it. I, OTOH, am now driving a 2004 4x4 Lincoln Navigator. I've done some snow with it but little else. It does have low range (I've heard the new ones dont?) and will have brand new Michelin Pilot mud and snows on it when we go. We are each bringing air compressor, tow strap, shovel, 3x3 pads for tire traction and hi-lifts.

Question is - what're our chances? Since I've read that Subarus make it in and out just fine, I'm not that worried for the Liberty. But what about the Nav? It weighs over 6000lbs dry and with me and my equipment and gas and water and Jack Daniels, it could be closer to 7000 lbs when I hit the sand. Will it sink like a stone? Or will a nice heavy foot on the pedal driving 4 aired-down tires get me in and out? Bets? Help? Thanks.

Hi,

I have been on the Paria plateau quite often with different vehicles. Which time of the year do you want to go there ? If you are going the Coral Valley route you should be fine with your Navigator. If you want to go up Paw Hole I would doubt, that you are able to go up.
I have been there three weeks ago and the conditions were perfect, but that may change fast.
White Pocket is a different thing on the way back, as most of the people go by the BLM suggested route. But there is a second route going down to Big Sink and a third one, going down from Hole-In-The-Rock. All of them are sandy, but they do not have that short steep sandy hill as the BLM route has.
I think, I saw also sometime ago a Lincoln Navigator going up there. So if you are going after a rain and probably going down Paw Hole instead of going up, you should be fine.

Chris

Chris.

We plan on going in in the next few weeks. The other guy has been planning routes etc so I may be a bit off in my knowledge, but I *think* he's planning to head into CBS via the Paw Hole route. SO you're saying the sand (and hills?) there could pose a problem for my Big Nav? I have suggested, after seeing your post, that we reroute ourselves such that we take the easiest way in and the easiest way out. In your opinion, that's Corral valley in? And which way out? THANKS.

Hi,

the 'climb' up to Paw Hole is very sandy before you reach the top. A lot of people are trying it, but turn around, because they are not able to make it. On the way back it would be an option, because you are going down that sandy portion. There is only a small ledge, where some deep sand is before and a lot of people are not taking their speed to go up. Instead of this they are stopping in front of the ledge and are not able to go ahead due to the sand.
I personally would say, the easiest way is to go in through Coral Valley (left turn at the coral, if you are coming from the north) and then the regular route to Sand Hills Ranch. You now have to pass Sand HIlls Ranch and directly after the ranch you have to turn sharp left, because the connecting trail before Sand Hill Ranch is now blocked due to the BLM route designation plan (at least it was last time, when we were there).
From there it is just slight downhill until you reach the gate at the begin of the permit area. The way back should be ok for you, if you are airing down and keeping the speed high enough.
If you are going into the permit area, I would not go to far down (towards Cottonwood Spring), because this trail usually is used very seldom and the sand is very deep.
To White Pocket you should be able to make the standard route from Sand Hills Ranch to the east and then after a 90 degree turn straight up on the Sand Hills. There is some sand and some rock, but nothing spectacular in my opinion. The problem is on the other side of the hill (if you are going this way back again). There a lot of people are struggling due to the deep sand.
After the hill you are coming to a cross trail, which leads to White Pocket on the left. To the right is the route down to Pine Tree Rd., which connects again to the Coral Valley route. This route I personally would not suggest, because it is somehow a twisting trail and some trees and bushes are really close.
What you could probably do on your way back, if you think you are not able to go up that sandy hill, is to go to Hole-In-The-Rock. This trails starts roughly in the middle between the point where you are meeting the connecting trail to White Pocket and the parking area at White Pocket. On your way back it goes to the left and on an easy, not to sandy trail you are going to Hole-In-The-Rock (here a link to my webpage with some pictures of the Paw Hole route and also of the route towards White Pocket and Hole-In-The-Rock: ---.offroaddance.de/Trails/Hole-The-Rock-VC_e.html). From Hole-In-The-Rock you can straight go down to Big Sink. It is sandy, but not so much. From Big Sink Valley you have two options. The normal route to the right, which connects to Pine Tree Rd. (sandy but well traveled) or the route towards the Mexican Sink turnoff (easy drive, not to much sand, but very seldom traveled). This route also connects to Pine Tree Rd. If you are going down to the Mexican Sink route, you should take the right fork shortly before Pine Tree Rd. because the left fork is getting rocky.
I have also a tracklog of this route, but I am not yet ready with a trip report on my webpage.

Chris

Hi Timeless,
We just came back from SC Buttes and White Pocket. We drove it in my 99 Chevy Tahoe. We went in to both places, from the corral valley rd. I would suggest you not go up the Paw hole route because of the deep sand issues and some short uphills that may bog you down. Returning back that route shouldn't be a problem if you remember the rules.
Momentum thru the sand is always the key. 4wd low in 2nd gear will keep your tires from over spinning. Never stop in the deep sand spots!! Keep your speed thru every sand section until you feel a solid bottom. We did come out of White Pocket the same way we came in. I dropped my tire pressure to low 20s on way out but probably didn't need to do it. There is a dip on the hill out, that slows your momentum, but didn't seem to be an issue. We came out from SC Buttes down the Paw hole rd. I could see why people suggest you go down it and not up. The situation you hope doesn't happen, is another vehicle coming at you while in the deep sand. I guess the person coming downhill has to get out of the way.:lol8:
You should be able to do this trip in the vehicles stated. Make sure you bring shovels just in case. Hopefully you know the roads to take in and out. It can get a little confusing.
Good Luck!:2thumbs: