No Kidding w/Sandtrap and Potshots

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03-16-2012, 10:14 PM
PG Rob

25 Attachment(s)

No Kidding w/Sandtrap and Potshots

I rarely post Trip Reports, but am doing so in light of current conversations related to the sandtrap and potshots.

Had a great time in No Kidding today with 2 friends, 1 of which had never rappelled before. The canyon starts out with a few fun narrow sections.
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It then opens up and there is an escape on LDC (there are actually are several in the canyon). This drop can be bypassed on the left by walking down the ramp LDC. The 2nd drop starts in the pothole that can be seen towards the top of the photo.
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We decided to set up the sandtrap rather than bypass the drop. We had to dig out a depression in the sand, and then filled the sandtrap. Thank you Tom (ratagonia) for the idea of using a hose on the pull rope. It seemed to make the pulls easier and helped to avoid rope grooves. Scott took the honor of first man down.
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At the 2nd drop, there is another escape, either LDC or RDC. Tom recommended that we set up a 200 ft rope to a horn just up canyon, so we could return and retrieve it, but the pull looked easy enough, so we set up the sandtrap again. We got some rocks and piled sand over them to build a ramp.
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This is Shawn's 2nd rappel, ever. Afterwards, the pull was clean.
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This is the spot where a sandtrap had been set up by others who got it stuck on the boulder. We looked down canyon from it, and it was an easy downclimb to the next ledge, so we did.
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At the next drop (#3), it looked like potshots would work well. We stacked 6 of them about 1/3 full for the bottom 4 and a little more for the top 2. They did not budge!
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The pull again was easy. In general potshots are easier to pull than a sandtrap.
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The next drop (#4) was from a small ledge that again looked best for potshots. It had a little ramp about the width of a potshot. We stacked 6 again.
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The pull again was easy
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At the next drop (#5), because of the small depression in the ledge, we decided for potshots again. Again, we stacked 6.
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This is the view for me (LAMAR - LAst Man At Risk)
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Pull was clean
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The next drop was tricky. The location was not well suited for the sandtrap, unless it was set up far back, causing a questionable pull, so we opted again for potshots. Again, we stacked 6. Since the location and geometry weren't the best, we went heavier this time.
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Pulling down potshots is great.
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At the last drop, we had to ferry sand. We found a nice indentation for the potshots, but were concerned about the pull, since this is the other place that a sandtrap has been stuck. We decided to bring every bag full to the point of setup. We poured most of the sand in a pile in front of the set up location, so when we pulled the potshots they would slide over the sand and jagged edges, rather than get snagged.
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After the rappel, the potshots pulled fine. All we had left was to slog up the Kelsey exit and back to the truck. All in all, a fun day in a fun canyon.
03-16-2012, 10:55 PM
Slot Machine

Quote:

Originally Posted by PG Rob

This is the spot where a sandtrap had been set up by others who got it stuck on the boulder. We looked down canyon from it, and it was an easy downclimb to the next ledge, so we did.

:lol8::lol8::lol8:

AWESOME!! :hail2thechief: As the saying goes: When you are good at something, you make it look easy.

There will be some unintended consequences of this outstanding TR: Obviously you just sold 1,000 PotShots for Tom and 100 SandTraps for Steve Woodward. Secondly, you are now personally responsible for the dozens of people that will meet their demise thinking that No Kidding is a beginner canyon (because now it looks SO easy). Lastly, there will probably be a movie made about you called 6 PotShots starring James Franco. :haha:

Great technique, excellent TR!!
Bob
03-17-2012, 12:06 AM
ilipichicuma

Good work! Looks like a lot of fun! :2thumbs:
03-17-2012, 07:28 AM
dude9478

So that's what is looks like down there. Nice report! Beautiful canyon
03-17-2012, 08:27 AM
penmartens

Rob,
Thanks for posting the TR. I was going to PM you if you didn't. I am sorry that there are so many legitimate threads going on potshots/traps. It is going to make it more difficult to find the pertinent beta/help/techniques when it is so spread out. Would you consider posting the link to this TR on that other thread that looks like it was started by me?
Thanks for taking the time to take pics that show the details.
Penny
03-17-2012, 08:41 AM
spinesnaper

:2thumbs::2thumbs:
03-17-2012, 08:54 AM
PG Rob

Quote:

I am sorry that there are so many legitimate threads going on potshots/traps. It is going to make it more difficult to find the pertinent beta/help/techniques when it is so spread out. Would you consider posting the link to this TR on that other thread that looks like it was started by me?

Thanks Penny... I post a link in the other thread at the same time I posted the TR.

Rob
03-17-2012, 09:45 AM
shaggy125

I did No Kidding in the days when Tom had just started toying with the whole potshot anchor idea. Tom figured it would be a good place to put some of his theory's and backyard testing into actual canyon use. That really is an ideal canyon for using those types of anchors, not many other options. I also thank you for taking the time to post so many photos, learning to use a sandtrap and mastering the potshot anchor are very good skills to have, especially if you want to start exploring canyons not found on the Internets and in Kelsey books someday.
03-17-2012, 11:41 AM
ratagonia

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaggy125

I did No Kidding in the days when Tom had just started toying with the whole potshot anchor idea. Tom figured it would be a good place to put some of his theory's and backyard testing into actual canyon use. That really is an ideal canyon for using those types of anchors, not many other options. I also thank you for taking the time to post so many photos, learning to use a sandtrap and mastering the potshot anchor are very good skills to have, especially if you want to start exploring canyons not found on the Internets and in Kelsey books someday.

True that! We made a few mistakes that made the stacked pot shots not work so well. The main one being that we had the rappel rope blocked on the bottom potshot, AND on the other potshots (2 or 3 more at most), and when pulled, we would get one or two pot shots off and then the whole mess would tangle. So, I think just attaching the rope to the bottom one, and carefully stacking the other potshots atop (while perhaps intellectually sketchy) works so much better for the cleaning.

We got a potshot stuck on the lip of this one pothole (see below). You can see it is very sharp. A potshot with a big handful of sand in it would not pull from below easily (Ram and I finally got it by pulling and thrashing with both ropes at the same time). This got me the idea of the "board", but then again, could also build a ramp on that one with sand. Or, don't potshot there, potshot above, and make sure the potshots empty before they fall down into that nasty little nook.

(Note, 2010 revision to the Pot Shot added the reinforcing belts, but also now they are flared to the top so they will empty more reliably.)

Be careful out there. The standard is EVERY anchor, EVERY time.

Tom :moses;
03-21-2012, 11:11 AM
Mountaineer

Wow, thanks for taking the time to post this report and your pics. I rarely reply or post, and you've motivated me to start. This canyon looks epic, and you did it efficiently and safely. Way to go.
03-22-2012, 05:20 PM
londog

Great narrative and instructional pics!

Tom, hows the pot shot inventory?

You may get a surge of orders after this post.
03-22-2012, 07:07 PM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by londog

Tom, hows the pot shot inventory?

You may get a surge of orders after this post.

Low. We'll probably run out pretty soon... :cry1:

Tom
03-23-2012, 10:13 AM
PG Rob

Quote:

Originally Posted by londog

Great narrative and instructional pics!

Thanks... To clarify: None of this is meant to be instructions or advise, only an account of what we did. You very well may find yourself needing to do different things, even in the same canyon. If you, or anyone, attempts this canyon or any other, be prepared (yourself) to solve the problems that present themselves to you, whatever they may be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotmachine

Obviously you just sold 1,000 PotShots for Tom and 100 SandTraps for Steve Woodward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by landog

Tom, hows the pot shot inventory?

You may get a surge of orders after this post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

We'll probably run out pretty soon... :cry1:

Funny!!
Hey Tom,
How about a commission? J/K... I don't suspect this will make much difference in orders, but I do wish you great success in your business. Thanks for providing great specialized tools for the community.

Rob
04-02-2012, 02:31 PM
penmartens

Our group did No Kidding on 3/31. We went in excited to try the new techniques that have been discussed on this group. Thanks go to PG Rob for getting us started on this. Let me just say, what a beautiful canyon! If someone else has said this before, please excuse me. I must have missed it in all the hype about the anchors. We were oohing and ahhing at every corner.
We also talked a lot about being in there alone and/or with mud. That would be so scary, I think I could have nightmares if I dwelt on it much. Kudos to those who have gone before and shared with others.
I think Canyondevil is going to make some technical comments over on the other thread. I just wanted to comment here in typical TR fashion::2thumbs:
Penny