Preventing rope abrasion--East Coast Canyoneering

Hey all,

I would like to get your input on something. I live in the Northeast and I have recently found a couple REALLY good canyons/gorges to drop. (I don't want to broadcast them so they are not flooded with people, but if you contact me personally I'll give you the beta on them).

The biggest difference/problem we are facing is that instead of sandstone, all the cliffs/canyons are granite, and any abrasion eats your rope like you can't believe. As an example, six of us dropped a canyon a few weeks ago, there were 8 rappels (6 of them in the 60-120 ft range). My rope is fairly new--bought it last year--but by the time we were done, I had to cut a 20ft section out of the middle of my rope. Basically, the sharp granite edges cut a very small section right through the sheath, and then on the next rappel, when the rope went through the "8" on my totem the core popped out a little. By the end the core was completely undamaged, but exposed in three places so it clearly needed to be retired.

Anyway, can anyone give me advice on how to reduce abrasion and save my rope. I've thought of a few ideas:
- run the rope though the middle of a piece of tubular webbing and let that fall on the abrasion point
- REI actually has a rope protector--Google: "REI rope protector" (but will be hard to retrieve)
- Just bring a thick towel, small blanket, piece of leather and lay it over the abrasion point (might not always work because many raps are right down waterfalls).

Any other solutions? Also note that we are only using retrievable anchors (around trees, etc) so whatever we use also needs to be retrievable.

Thanks!

Evan

Maybe try a contingency set-up(your choice) and "slip" the rope as each rappeler goes down.
Using "low" stretch ropes will help considerably.

It looks like a lot of people have put their ropes through a piece of garden hose to protect them from things like that. It looks pretty effective overall. I have yet to try it.

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Originally Posted by ilipichicuma

It looks like a lot of people have put their ropes through a piece of garden hose to protect them from things like that. It looks pretty effective overall. I have yet to try it.

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This works very well IF your sharp contact point is up high at the start of a rap and the hose can be easily bypassed by descender.

Not so well if your point of concern is 15-20-30+feet down.

Thicker ropes will handle abrasion better than thinner ropes. Different ropes have different sheath strengths and abrasion resistance. If you talk with a climbing shop they should be able to help you find a tough rope. I have climbing on Granite and limestone a lot and never had much of a problem with my ropes being cut into.

Your best defense against rope damage is to pick a good repel line.

I'm no rope expert--but I'm sure Tom will chime in......

I can't see larger diameter being able to handle abrasion any better than smaller...

imo--a rope's ability to handle "reasonable" amounts of abrasion, comes from sheath makeup, more so than diameter.ymmv

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Originally Posted by wej

The biggest difference/problem we are facing is that instead of sandstone, all the cliffs/canyons are granite, and any abrasion eats your rope like you can't believe.

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I climb a ton on granite and rappel, and, my ropes NEVER get abraided on granite. Including extensive TRing at rough rock places like Joshua Tree, City of Rocks, etc.

Try rappelling double strand and having smooth technique.

Sharp granite edges? Hate to mention it...but...put the rope where the sharp edges aren't, then mind it on the way past. Or...take a hammer and blunt those edges down. Granite, as rock goes, tends to be soft enough to flatten crystals/edges fairly easy.

Other solutions may be to rig the rappels with the anchor over the edge...

But, really, might be that you/your folks are bouncing too much on the rappels...

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Originally Posted by oldno7

I'm no rope expert--but I'm sure Tom will chime in......

I can't see larger diameter being able to handle abrasion any better than smaller...

imo--a rope's ability to handle "reasonable" amounts of abrasion, comes from sheath makeup, more so than diameter.ymmv

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Thanks for the slo-pitch Kurt...

Yes, larger diameter helps, but the construction of the rope is also important. A climbing shop may not a good place to work this out, since climbing ropes are designed specifically for ... wait for it ... climbing - rather than rappelling. However, there are not many caving- or canyoneering-specific shops around, so it might be your best bet.

Go for a large-diameter static rope that is HARD, rather than soft. Harder to make knots in, but much more resistant to cutting. You can certainly hang a pad down for all but the last rappeller. I would suggest also going double-strand, even if that means you need a third strand for retrieval.

The term "granite" covers a lot of ground, so different forms of what is commonly called granite have widely different properties.

So: double-strand, larger diameter, static rope, careful/gentle technique. Can pad for all but the last person.

Tom

some good thoughts, but not too many specifics. Bluewater (Canyonline or Canyon DS)and Sterling (C-IV or Canyontech) both have canyoneering ropes with dyneema/technora in the sheath, which makes it much more resistant to being damaged on rock. Kurt mentioned "slipping" the rope- I've also heard it called creeping, as with a creeping 8- if you use an 8 block with only one wrap- you can feed the rope, actaully lowering the rappeller a foot or two while he is rappelling, which by keeping the rope moving over a sharp edge, doesn't focus the wear spot in one place. Another alternative to this would be to shift the double rope in one direction, even just 6 inches or so, between rappellers, so all 6 guys are not rubbing the rope on the same spot over the sharp edge.

rick t