Issues in Arches

A small group of Junctionites headed to Arches NP with plans for Lomation and Krill but were unable to get a permit despite being at the visitor center at 0730. Apparently you can obtain a Fiery Furnace permit days in advance but you must have your entire group present at the time of issue. Bad news for us Grand Junction folks headed to Moab for a day trip!

So we changed plans and headed to Elephant Butte and Tier drop system. Elephant Butte was as fun as always. However the Tier Drop system was another story.

I really want emphasis to the canyoneering community that Arches management plan very specifically states: “Use of deadman anchors is prohibited.”

Here is a link to the canyoneering regs:
https://www.nps.gov/arch/planyourvisit/canyoneer.htm

What concerns me is that we found multiple deadman and cairn anchors in Tier Drip and Not Tier drop. We also removed lots and lots of brightly (literally florescent orange and pink) colored webbing. The photo below is webbing from just TWO routes! Regs (and common sense?) state to use “Software left in place is required to match the rock surface in color”.

Deadman or cairn anchors are absolutely not needed for any the routes in Arches and break regulations.

Additionally the rope grooving is incredible! Its has been a couple years since I last did some of these canyons but the number of rope groves and severity of grooving is jaw dropping! Even in bolted U Turn the grooves are in seemingly random places and completely unnecessary.

Does the canyoneering community accept that grooves are unavoidable or do we need to be more proactive to reduce the damage canyoneers are causing?

We used a fiddle for every drop. You can easily do all three canyon without leaving ANY webbing or making even a single rope groove with this technique.

I understand these are easy to access and relatively straightforward and beginner friendly, low commitment canyons. I also understand that releasable anchors are are an advanced technique that is seemingly not (yet) fully accepted. However if we really want to strive to not damage the places we visit what are the alternatives other than accepting that grooving (which gets worse with each visit and is essentially permanent damage) is an acceptable practice?

We saw a lot evidence that canyoneers are disregarding the regulations and leaving a significant amount of damage in our wake.

My concern is that these routes and canyoneering in general will be shut down in Arches. The damage in terms of rope grooves is simply incredible. The use of deadman anchors show that we will ignore regulations. We are a rather small community yet we are leaving a rather large scar.

I understand that this post take on a lecture tone to it, and I don't mean it that way. I really want to know and understand the perspectives of other canyoneers on this topic. It was more than a bit distressing to see the footprint canyoneering was leaving behind.

Why do you assume the people doing these things are part of the "canyoneering community"?

Personally, I don't think the people "doing these things" are participants on Bogley, or CC. I think they are just people who find beta online or buy the guidebook and go do them. How do you propose that WE (the canyoneering community) or THEY (the Park) reach THESE PEOPLE (the perps)?

:moses:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyanGJ

A small group of Junctionites headed to Arches NP with plans for Lomation and Krill but were unable to get a permit despite being at the visitor center at 0730. Apparently you can obtain a Fiery Furnace permit days in advance but you must have your entire group present at the time of issue. Bad news for us Grand Junction folks headed to Moab for a day trip!

So we changed plans and headed to Elephant Butte and Tier drop system. Elephant Butte was as fun as always. However the Tier Drop system was another story.

I really want emphasis to the canyoneering community that Arches management plan very specifically states: “Use of deadman anchors is prohibited.”

Here is a link to the canyoneering regs:
https://www.nps.gov/arch/planyourvisit/canyoneer.htm

What concerns me is that we found multiple deadman anchors in Tier Drip and Not Tier drop. We also removed lots and lots of brightly (literally florescent orange and pink) colored webbing. The photo below is webbing from just TWO routes! Regs (and common sense?) state to use “Software left in place is required to match the rock surface in color”.

Deadman are absolutely not needed for any the routes in Arches and break regulations.

Additionally the rope grooving is incredible! Its has been a couple years since I last did some of these canyons but the number of rope groves and severity of grooving is jaw dropping! Even in bolted U Turn the grooves are in seemly random and completely unnecessary.

Does that canyoneering community just accept that grooves are unavoidable or do we need to be more proactive to reduce the damage canyoneers are causing?

We used a fiddle for every drop. You can easily do all three canyon without leaving ANY webbing or making even a single rope groove with this technique.

I understand these are easy to access and relatively straightforward and beginner friendly, low commitment canyons. I also understand that releasable anchors are are an advanced technique that is seemingly not fully accepted. However if we really want to strive to not damage the places we visit what are the alternatives other than accepting that grooving (which gets worse with each visit and is essentially permanent damage) is an acceptable practice?

We saw a lot evidence that canyoneers are disregarding the regulations and leaving a significant amount of damage in our wake.

My concern is that these routes and canyoneering in general will be shut down in Arches. The damage in terms of rope grooves is simply incredible. The use of deadman anchors show that we will ignore regulations. We are a rather small community yet we are leaving a rather large scar.

I understand that this post take on a lecture tone to it, and I don't mean it that way. I really want to know and understand the perspectives of other canyoneers on this topic. It was more than a bit distressing to see the footprint canyoneering was leaving behind.

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100% agree with you. I've started using a Fiddlestick even on trade routes just to reduce grooving. Pulling 100 feet of canyon rope through the chains does a lot to the soft sandstone found in Southern Utah. Repeat 10 times a day and you get grooves like those in Spry that must be close to a foot deep.

I would have thought that Arches would be opposed to cairn anchors rather than deadman anchors--assuming the concern is cosmetics. The big pile of rocks seems more objectionable than something buried in the sand. I've only done a couple of routes in Arches and it was a couple of years ago and the concern I had was that it seemed like some folks were taking the direct path to/from the car rather than going through the washes.

Tom,

Your question is one of the main reasons I posted this in the first place. I wanted to understand the perspectives of those in the community in regards to rope grooves. The shear amount of grooves shows that it has become the standard of practice for many people. The canyon community has the largest influence on what that standard is and what it can become.There is a problem and it is a bad one, it is a problem that threatens access for all of us, therefore I would argue there is a burden on the canyoneering community to create solutions. This forum is one of the best places I could think of to generate some ideas of how to combat these issues.

So to best answer your question, I believe that solutions are multifaceted. These are just some thoughts to get a conversation started:

One is to ask those who provide beta to places a greater emphasis on the above issues. For example Ryan's site does mentions rope grooves but does not provide ideas of how to prevent them. As you mentioned above this is the source that is helping to bring more people to the area, it seems to be an ideal place to provide education of the issues facing the area and how to prevent it.

(I know that internet beta now extends outside canyoneering specific sites now, but we need to start somewhere)

Second is to have those who are in the community help to properly place anchors. While all of the routes in Arches can be done without leaving anything behind, it is probably best to actually place anchors in the best position for groove prevention for those who will follow. I have been doing these routes for the last 10-15 years and I have rarely encountered an anchor in the NP that was extended over the edge to allow for traditional pull without adding grooves. This is an added burden in time and money to the canyoneer who doesn't even need (or want) to use webbing, but it could be seen as a investment to help prevent closure or additional restrictions on canyoneering. This is what we did on our last run through.

Third is asking the NP to place permeant anchors (peakbaggers thread on Lomation is a great example). The bolts that were removed in Not Tier Drop are another example. Since the removal of the bolts new grooves have come into existence. I am in the camp of ghosting and minimal impact, but as you stated, THESE people are coming, and in large numbers, and each groove will be there for quite some time. Perhaps a bolts vs grooves debate?

Fourth is to change the permitting system to add emphasis on the need to have skills to prevent rope grooving along with suggested techniques. These suggestions need not be complicated. Extended the anchor to the edge, walk back to increase the angle before pulling, evaluating pull, ect. I would argue that any method using traditional pull in Arches will still create grooves, but there are way to minimize the damage.

Many of the beta site also have some form of a techniques section. Adding information on how to prevent rope grooves could be a great addition. It would place emphasis on the issues and education on how to prevent it.

What else does anyone have for ideas?

Agostinone,

I believe ( and please correct me if I am) that the NP uses the term "deadman" to include sand buried and rock cairn anchors. I do know that they do not want sand moved and made the assumption that moving rocks would fall under that same principle. Neither is needed for any route in arches. You are also correct in that the approaches have become an issue in addition to those listed above.

I've seen people actually getting "lost" at the final raps for U-Turn and Not Tierdrop. I can see them talking amongst their group deciding whether to go this way down the watercourse or around the shelf back to the parking lot.

Perhaps a sign or clearly marked path on these two specific exit routes?


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I would assume those not officially included in the "Canyoneering Community" have searched through sites and forums like Bogley to look for Arches canyoneering routes.

Even if it wasn't a registered member on Bogley, the same crowd may read this post as a warning, and hopefully refine their methods after learning the consequences.

The park has started this process is some areas. I have seen signage this year IN the canyons. I am sure that as a principal most on this forum are against signage in the canyons, however it may be necessary in a place such as Arches. This may be a way around permeant anchors? I would hate to see a sign saying "anchor here" but I would hate even more to have access blocked.

A few years ago the park service had some signs at the bottom of tier drop showing the recommended route off the shelf. They has since disappeared.

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