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Jenny does a fantastic job of writing. I enjoyed reading this yesterday. :2thumbs:
Yeah. Very nice read with some good lessons to be learned, and a good job by her team taking care of her. :2thumbs:Quote:
Originally Posted by blueeyes
Great writing Jenny, sorry for your misfortune.
You should write more, makes great reading.:2thumbs:
Looking for this explanation long time ago!!Quote:
Originally Posted by elo
So I'm going to go off on a little rant...and the first question may be "Why am I posting it here?"...well, it's because Tom (may be) the supreme commander over at Canyon Collective...and Canyon Collective sucks.
So about a year ago, a canyoneering friend of mine made a thread over there announcing a blog he had started. I signed up at the site to go in and give him congrats on a job well done, but he site wouldn't let me post..."insufficient privileges" it would say. So I send a message to the powers that be over there inquiring about what I had to do to "gain privileges" and received no reply. Twice, in fact.
I figured "OK...maybe I'm not welcome?" or perhaps there's some kind of magic trick to submit a simple post? Anyway, I just let it go. However, every month or so I'll pop in there to have a look around. It can be rather dead but every now and then there's some juicy nuggets.
So yesterday I go in and there is a post inquiring about some canyons on the east side of the lower Escalante River...Georges Camp, Prima, Donna, Shofar, Hydra, Ichabod, Beryl...several people replied but everyone is clueless about them. I, on the other hand, have intimate knowledge of this area, having backpacked them all from stem to stern many times. So much so I can go in there tomorrow without a map in hand...serious stuff, serious route finding...a true wilderness experience and for someone to dive in there, you'd want to get some precise beta or spend several trips exploring and feeling it out.
So I log in to go to this post and throw down some info...as the person inquiring was interested in canyoneering possibilities among these canyons. I know what the deal is.
I was able to log in, but was denied "posting privileges" yet again. I start poking around to find a solution and discover that although my "account" exists in so much that I'm a "member"...my account has been "cancelled". So I'm there but I'm...not there.
The only thing I can figure is that whoever it is in charge over there is a pussy. Picking and choosing who the attendees are...whereas here at Bogley no one is excluded...doesn't mean they're going to last very long but there not locked out. Quite telling, isn't it? Stinking judgmental commies.
Not necessarily trying to finger Tom with this...but whoever it is ruling the roost over there is IMO quite weak...especially considering the post I would have provided would have been quite epic and entertaining.
^^^I'm also not allowed to post on CC, so don't go thinking you're all special or something.
Personality, a quick wit, or mentioning the emperor has no clothes are all banning offenses over there. Having actual knowledge or expertise on a subject is frowned upon if it happens to go against the collective grain.
Liberals despise free speech -- it threatens their fragile egos. How can they allow something to exist that threatens to prove them wrong?
Instead of growing a spine and allowing something they disagree with to exist on their servers they have to snuff it out lest it hurt the feelings of the members and make them look vulnerable.
Jr. High school nonsense over there.
Oh, I'm fully aware that you're on the shit list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Occasionally there's some good info over there along with some groovy pictures...but one thing I've noticed is the "walking on eggshells" thing...like there's a hierarchy that those that dwell below don't want to draw the ire of. I despise that kind of crap...probably because I'm the kind of guy that would waltz in and take their job and then blast open the doors for anything goes.
Here's the rub...it's one thing to lurk and then come out of the ether with some snarky comments and another to come in with some truly informative beta. I would have no intention of posting anything in regards to politics, social issues or anything of the things they tap dance around over there...that's not the way I roll. It's just that the notion of having a velvet rope to protect themselves from anything "controversial" seems just like what it is...exclusionary. That's the problem with these self righteous liberal types...they throw a wet blanket over the whole damn thing. Like a fishing net that scoops up everything in sight.
Maybe it's not a "liberal" thing at all? Maybe they're just jerks, straight up. I've heard thru the grapevine that "beta spraying" is a taboo thing with them and perhaps that's what they dislike most after all...guys like me that have been around and aren't afraid to talk about it. Scott P seems to get a pass...he actually posted in the thread. Looks like he's poked around in there a bit but didn't throw down anything substantial.
Anyway...I'm not concerned about being "denied admittance"...that's not the point. It just annoys me that people that would be all smiles and handshakes in person would stab you in the back. It's cowardly, IMO.
Seems like it, huh? Like a bunch of 8th graders wanting the 10th graders to like them. There's a couple guys over there that poke around the edges just a bit and they're tolerated.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
So I get a PM from a guy that's interested in beta regarding these canyons...the east side of the Escalante from George's Camp down to Beryl. He said I can exchange that info with him via email if I'm OK with that but my opinion is that if we're on a public forum, then that info should be available to all with interest. When it comes to canyons on public land, I don't really favor those that try to keep places "secret"...because there are no secrets. With the exception of ruins or artifacts, of course...I know of some that I'll never reveal...because I know what will happen.
I invited this guy to just post here like anyone else would and if he does I'll start a thread on that area. So with that said...what's to see back in there? Backpacking and Canyoneering for the most part. The backpacking is outstanding...superior pristine wilderness as you would expect. Tricky route finding...a place that only experienced people should attempt. Canyoneering?...not so much. The only "proper" canyon for that kind of thing is Prima...and it's a bit of a dud. To do it, a sand trap and two 60' ropes is all you need. A wetsuit outside of the heat for at least one swimmer...no grottos, riparian sections or nifty rappels...a bit of a scrambling canyon and it's gonna be a three day trip at least coming from Early Weed. The others are pretty much open except for near the mouths...where you can likely experience short bits similar to Mighty Mouse near Zion...better go seriously prepared for that.
The trick is getting in and out of the area...from the river, there's a way up to Prima from the Rincon just to the north or its mouth...which is probably one of the most exciting up routes to the Wingate in the entire canyon. There's another really cool and exposed route up to the left of Donnas mouth...but you'll never find it from the river unless you're familiar with it...best experienced for the first time from the top down. There's two ways into Shofar on either side of the mouth...one is easy to see, the other not so much. The next entry is all the way down at Ichabod (simply walk up the canyon) and Beryl has a way up to the Wingate as well, but there's a trick to that as well when you find the very exposed Moki steps...gotta be careful with that one. I would imagine most people have gone up there, looked at it and then just walked back down to the river!
Anyway, if he has any specific questions about these routes I'll be happy to answer them here on this forum. I also know the area between Steven's Canyon and Bowns (Explorer, Cow and Rose)...which is another superior backpacking area...with the tricky route finding, of course.
Here's a picture of Katie making her way across those Moki steps in Beryl. There is a way to bypass these with a partner boost and short rope work to get the last person up. I "ordered" Katie not to walk across these steps, as the penalty points are severe...if you peel off it's 25' to jagged boulders and the picture is deceiving...trying to pancake yourself isn't going to work. But of course she had to show off...I was very upset she did that...risky as hell.
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I'm not a fan of "keep it secret", many times when I'm asked for beta I'll respond with post the request on Bagley and I'll reply.
I have several reasons for that, one of which is to drive more traffic and participation to Bogley.
New to Bogley, just getting my first looks around. Byron, noticed your post and felt I had to speak.
I'm one of those "liberal types" and am 100% in agreement with your observations about liberal snootiness and the fricking relentless cancel culture. Somewhere along the way the good hardworking people, who could also be free thinkers, got co-opted by this elitist BS. Really chaps my ass.
Well alright, soapbox aside... something else that chaps my ass is sliding down sandstone. And that brings me to the lower escalante. I did a solo backpack down Scorpion Gulch and up into Fold/Shofar/Hydra a few years ago and found it stunning. I also went in without much beta and had to suss out weaknesses to get up and down the Wingate. It was a true adventure. Would also love to go back.
Maybe we can head out there together and do what good libs and cons should do when with each other: openly bitch and complain, disagree, threaten to throw each other off the cliff, and then and have a beer.
Anyway, thanks for speaking up.
Uh, oh...just getting your first looks around, eh? hahaha!...you seem to be the thick skin type, so perhaps it won't end up in disaster!Quote:
Originally Posted by potholejunkie
Yeah, send me a PM and we'll exchange contact info...I'll go back into that area anytime as it's quite spectacular. I've got a trip report on the southern end of that trek you should check out...Ichabod and Beryl.