First Time canyoneering

Hi, so group of us 3 friends have gotten permit to hike at the Subway in zion national park. I've few question which would be greatly appreciated if anyone can answer.

1. I dont know how to swim, my friends do. I can swim with a life jacket though. Is that a good idea? How deep is the water in pools that you have to swim through at Subway. Is there any better option?
2. Is there any shuttle service that would take us to the entry point and pick us from exit point
3. Any recommendations that you would have for for us. Its the first time we are canyoneering. is Subway a good hike for first timers? We are all decently fit, not overweight by any chance.


Thanks, any help will be greatly appreciated.

I've only done subway once so I don't remember much about water levels, but as for a shuttle, Zion adventure company is good one if you want a guarantee, but it is a little expensive. Personally I'd just show up early drop off friends at the top and park your car at the bottom and hitch a ride back up. One option for handling the swimming sections would be to bring a dry bag to stick in your pack and use that as flotation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TommyBoy

I've only done subway once so I don't remember much about water levels, but as for a shuttle, Zion adventure company is good one if you want a guarantee, but it is a little expensive. Personally I'd just show up early drop off friends at the top and park your car at the bottom and hitch a ride back up. One option for handling the swimming sections would be to bring a dry bag to stick in your pack and use that as flotation.

---

Thanks for the info. Do dry backpacks help you keep afloat?

The swims weren't that long when I went last year as a beginner (although I had someone experienced with me) so if you say you can swim with a lifejacket that shouldn't be a problem. If you're going top down there's a few quite awkward drops (I'd guess 10-25ft but I'm not sure), which you'd almost certainly need a rope for. If you're going bottom up you just stop when you can't go further. My main advice would be get there as early as you possibly can as first you could probably save your shuttle money by hitching or getting someone to car share, secondly you will be ahead of others in case you get lost at the start which some do, and thirdly if you run into any problems people will be coming behind to help. Last year a virtual beginner who was last down died after getting stuck on a rope (he had sadly tried to descend in the wrong place anyway), but if someone had been coming down behind they might have been able to help

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by harshp

1. I dont know how to swim, my friends do. I can swim with a life jacket though. Is that a good idea? How deep is the water in pools that you have to swim through at Subway. Is there any better option?

---

I hate to come across as harsh, but, if you don't know how to swim, I'd suggest not doing any canyon that might require it, lifejacket or not.

Better option would be to go up the Subway until you have to swim, then, turn around and hike back out.

Learn how to swim!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian in SLC

I hate to come across as harsh, but, if you don't know how to swim, I'd suggest not doing any canyon that might require it, lifejacket or not.

Better option would be to go up the Subway until you have to swim, then, turn around and hike back out.

Learn how to swim!

---

Gotta agree with Brian. How deep are the swims? It doesn't matter, they are over your head. The one under the bowling ball is even a little bit difficult. You might do fine with a life jacket on - then again you might not.

Swimming with a pack for floatation works, but is not a substitute for knowing how to swim. I have seen people who know how to swim struggle to figure out how to use the pack. I have seen people who do not know how to swim try in canyons, in the simplest of swims. It was not pretty.

Zion Adventure Company does a "Subway transfer", meaning they meet you at the bottom parking lot and drop you at the top parking lot. You will need a reservation for that - although, really, I think you should just hike it from the bottom, in which case you start and finish at the same trailhead.

Please also note that it is not "a walk in the park". It is a backcountry route with a poorly-defined trail in many places. Knowing how to read a map is very helpful, even from the bottom up.

Tom

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian in SLC

Learn how to swim!

---

^^^THIS^^^

There is no excuse for not knowing how to swim. As an adult you can take private lessons for less then $50. Think of it as drown proofing yourself. And the peace of mind you will gain not always having to fear water is priceless.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iceaxe

^^^THIS^^^

There is no excuse for not knowing how to swim. As an adult you can take private lessons for less then $50. Think of it as drown proofing yourself. And the peace of mind you will gain not always having to fear water is priceless.

---

X2

Here at the beach we have a term for non-swimmers who go in the water - we call them "RESCUES"

In fact, we rescue people who are "pool lifeguards" & "competitive swimmers" all the time. There is a big difference between a warm, calm pool with a shallow end and an edge twenty feet away versus cold, moving water with a slippery rocky bottom. Subway along with any other creek, river or Ocean can be a very dangerous place depending on the ever changing conditions.

Now that I have you freaked out - don't worry! any one can learn to swim no matter how old you are!! Please, please take the time to get some lessons, it will open up a whole new world for you! You won't regret it and it won't take you very long to be "drown - resistant" (sorry Iceaxe - no one is drown proof)

Good luck!! and if your Subway permit is late summer, you can easily be "drown-resistant" by then!

also, "swimming" with a heavy backpack full of gear in cold water is not quite the same as regular swimming.

^^^
Toss in some current, a strong reversal, being tangled in a rope, maybe a siphon nearby, sucking you under...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joeb

Here at the beach

---

:kickit:

Drown-resistant is a better term. :2thumbs:

My wife couldn't swim when we first met. That was the first thing about her that I fixed. :haha:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iceaxe

:kickit:

Drown-resistant is a better term. :2thumbs:

My wife couldn't swim when we first met. That was the first thing about her that I fixed. :haha:

---

Thanks - of course "drown - resistant" is a derivative of "fool - resistant" as everyone knows there is nothing "fool - proof" as the fools will always win in the end :crazy::crazy:

Now speaking of fools - if your wife is anything like mine, her list of husband "fixes" both accomplished and still working on - is very long indeed :banana: given what fools men are!

I reckon you're going to do one of three things: Follow the advice of these guys and learn to swim before the trip...hike up from the bottom as far as you can...screw everyone I'm going for it.

I've been through that canyon many times. You will get wet, there's no way around it. If the "screw everyone" option is your choice, then buy a full on "real" life vest, not some cheap blow up thing. Perhaps practice in a swimming pool with the vest...just float on your back and kick you feet, remain calm, breath easy. But hell, if you're going to do that (at a minimum), then for Christ's sake, learn to swim!

The hike up from the bottom will be a good one...start EARLY! Like 7a.m., and just go. You'll get to a nifty waterfall and soon after that the Subway proper. Bring a camera, it's nice. This hike will take all day...no shuttle needed. I say do that, and then come back later to do the whole thing from top to bottom after you LEARN TO SWIM!!! :nod:

guys thanks for all the advice. It is really helpful. Im going, i guess i should start learning how to swim. Thanks again appreciate it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iceaxe

:kickit:

Drown-resistant is a better term. :2thumbs:

My wife couldn't swim when we first met. That was the first thing about her that I fixed. :haha:

---

Of course that isn't nearly as interesting as hearing from her regarding the first thing about you she fixed.:haha::haha:

It shows the importance I place on the ability to swim that I taught her to do that before I taught her how to do that other thing I like so much. :stud:

:roflol:


On a serious note.... if anyone in the SLC area doesn't know how to swim I'd be happy to teach you with out making fun of you.

I'd recommend knowing how to swim, but at least now (did it yesterday) all the swimmers in Subway are bypassable, but perhaps it depends on how tall you are.

I could touch bottom on the first two pools. They are maybe just under 5 feet deep. The other swimming section is bypassable via a ledge system on the left, but you miss a lot of the fun.

Although I'd highly recommend knowing how to swim, if you took a life jacket and bypassed the pools, it would be possible to do the canyon without swimming (take that life jacket anyway! You could always trip!) if you are around 6 feet tall or taller. Swimming is the best option though.