Need a backup option to Sleepy Hollow in Escalante

We're planning on covering the following places between May 24-31 as day trips (we're not planning on bringing backpacking gear with us)
- Zion: Yankee Doodle, Pine Creek, Keyhole?, Mystery, Telebehunin, and Spry
- Escalante: Neon, Raven&Headless-Hen, Sleepy Hollow

We're a group of six (all above 6', and weight ranges from 155 --> 225 (fit not fat :stud:)). Some of us has canyoneering experience and some are rookies. The idea is to gain experience throughout the week, to the point that we can decide as a group on the last day whether we want to do Sleepy Hollow (:crazycobasa:) or not (min. group size to enter the canyon must be 3).

I was wondering if any of you has an idea what should be our backup option in case that we decide to abort the Sleepy Hollow plan. This would be our last day, and after that we head back to CA. Keep in mind we're doing Headless Hen & Raven the day before.

Some options I was considering are:
[LIST=1][*]Davis Gulch

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Some of us has canyoneering experience and some are rookies.

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And you want to do Sleepy Hollow? Really? Some of you weigh 225 as well and a week in mostly easy canyons is all the experience you believe to be needed?

If you're already doing Neon, what about Ringtail (there's still a keeper pothole in there)? Choprock is good for experienced canyoneers (though you should bring backpacking gear for the access). It would still be a better choice than Sleepy Hollow. The Bakers are not easy, but still easier than something like Sleepy Hollow.

There are also the Egypt slots. As hard as E4 is, it is still probably easier than Sleepy Hollow (I haven't done Sleepy). Still, I wouldn't go in there without several seasons of experience.

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Originally Posted by Scott P

And you want to do Sleepy Hollow? Really? Some of you weigh 225 as well and a week in mostly easy canyons is all the experience you believe to be needed?

If you're already doing Neon, what about Ringtail (there's still a keeper pothole in there)? Choprock is good for experienced canyoneers (though you should bring backpacking gear for the access). It would still be a better choice than Sleepy Hollow. The Bakers are not easy, but still easier than something like Sleepy Hollow.

There are also the Egypt slots. As hard as E4 is, it is still probably easier than Sleepy Hollow (I haven't done Sleepy). Still, I wouldn't go in there without several seasons of experience.

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I'm with Scott. You have a schedule that is all rap-n-swim kiddy canyons (it's an old joke, don't take it personally) and then you have one day of REAL canyoneering, high scary off-the-deck stuff, that takes a whole different skill set, that you give yourself no opportunity to develop.

Well, relative hardnesses can be debated, but E4 is WAY HARD and unpleasant - not on my list. Sleepy Hollow is also WAY HARD, and I have backed out of it, but came back later to take Ram's sneak entrance and 'miss out' on the gnarly X section. Then it was only R+. I think you guys will have a tough enough time with Raven and Headless Hen, and Sleepy Hollow/Big Tony is a big step up from those in both difficulty and commitment. We've already had enough rescues to last the season, and it's only April 16th!

My suggestion: STOP thinking about Sleepy Hollow. I also don't think your group is ready for Pandora's.

Might want to do HH and Raven when you first arrive in Escalante, and then fade back to Neon. Might toss in Cassidy Arch in Cap Reef as another day. Might want to save a Zion Canyon for your get-away day, so you can break up the drive a bit. Maybe Spry.

Tom

Sleepy Hollow warning stolen from Shane:

Warning:
Every member of your group must be a skilled canyoneer in excellent physical condition. If you do not meet these recommendations stay out of this canyon. Sleepy Hollow could be deadly for beginners, even with advanced leadership.A rescue in this canyon would be dangerous and extremely complex. Sleepy Hollow is rated 4B X IV using the Canyon Rating System.

I'm convinced ...no sleepy hollow for this trip :nono:...back to the drawing board.
1. Does anyone think Davis Gulch is a worthy option...start with Davis Gulch --> Raven & HH --> Neon -->home
2. Backpacking is not an option, since some of the guys are coming from overseas, and it's too complicated to coordinate. I'll consider doing Ringtail though (if I were to choose between Ringtail and Davis Gulch...which one would you recommend?)
3. I still have the option to extend my trip in Zion by one more day, and just do Neon and Raven&HH in the Escalante area

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Originally Posted by nkanarik

I'm convinced ...no sleepy hollow for this trip :nono:...back to the drawing board.
1. Does anyone think Davis Gulch is a worthy option...start with Davis Gulch --> Raven & HH --> Neon -->home
2. Backpacking is not an option, since some of the guys are coming from overseas, and it's too complicated to coordinate. I'll consider doing Ringtail though (if I were to choose between Ringtail and Davis Gulch...which one would you recommend?)
3. I still have the option to extend my trip in Zion by one more day, and just do Neon and Raven&HH in the Escalante area

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Let me weigh in on Ringtail. It has one very serious keeper pothole. If the hole is filled with water, it can present a life threatening hypothermia situation. The first time I was in there, it was filled with very cold water. On the high side as you entered the hole from above, the water was chest deep ( I am 5'6"). At the exit, my 6'3" tall buddy dived for the bottom and never found it. From the surface of the water it was another 4 feet to the top and everything we throw over came back when we put weight on it. We struggled with this hole without adequate gear and after 1.5 hours of trying every thing we could think of ascended our blocked rope out of the pothole and were very happy to get out of there and warm up in the sun.

Two years ago, we tried Ringtail again with a very strong group of 4, armed for bear. This time the pot hole was bone dry. I would estimate the height of the down canyon lip as about 12 feet above the bottom of the pothole. It took three potshots to counter balance the weight of the first canyoneer over the lip. They dropped an etrier for the rest of us. Even with no water, this is a very respectable pot hole. Just being real here. I found it much easier the second time (still hard) due to better conditions, more experience having done Quandry and the full Squeeze (pothole school), better gear, and more canyoneers with excellent climbing skills. The canyon is short but it is an R canyon and deserves your full respect, attention, and appropriate resources. Nothing in Choprock was as hard as that first keeper in Ringtail but we also had amazing conditions in Choprock. See my trip report on this: http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...light=choprock

Ken

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Originally Posted by nkanarik

I'm convinced ...no sleepy hollow for this trip :nono:...back to the drawing board.
1. Does anyone think Davis Gulch is a worthy option...start with Davis Gulch --> Raven & HH --> Neon -->home
2. Backpacking is not an option, since some of the guys are coming from overseas, and it's too complicated to coordinate. I'll consider doing Ringtail though (if I were to choose between Ringtail and Davis Gulch...which one would you recommend?)
3. I still have the option to extend my trip in Zion by one more day, and just do Neon and Raven&HH in the Escalante area

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Davis is awesome, but...

It is quite a drive down there. A large part of the charm of the trip for me was (car) camping in this very remote place in an awesome landscape.

Ringtail would involve hiking down to the river, again, and back, again. If you are camping at Neon, it makes a great 1/2 day canyon.

Dr. Spine-Snapper's experience shows what resourceful, well-equipped, but inexperienced canyoneers can be flummoxed by - and you might experience some of that in HH and Raven. I consider THOSE to be a stretch for your group - you got a SAT phone? (435) 826-4714 Rick Green is the guy who will have to come and get you.

Tom

Do have a satellite phone, and and at least two of us have experience with potholes. I think we should be ok with Raven & HH.

Thanks for all the feedback.