FWIW: Since September Keyhole Falls has a nice big sandy landing and a big log to down climb, but I'm sure that will change greatly with spring runoff.
Sent using Tapatalk
Printable View
Is this the wording you were talking about?
or this?Quote:
Canyoneering: Never enter a technical canyon without the knowledge and skills needed to safely explore and return. Rappelling and down-climbing skills are required to navigate through the Subway. Do not jump. Jumping in Zion's canyons have resulted in many broken bones. The Subway route requires excellent map reading skills to navigate. GPS coordinates are only references and may or may not be accurate and a GPS has limited capabilities in canyons. Do not rely on them as the sole method of navigation. Always check your position with a detailed map before dropping into a canyon.
Pulled from http://www.zionnational-park.com/zio...ark-subway.htmQuote:
Difficulty: This is a technical canyon where rappelling and down-climbing skills are required, but these obstacles can be avoided by hiking from the bottom into the Subway.
While Tanya's site is a great resource, it does not represent official policy of Zion National Park.
Official Policy is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NPS Zion
http://www.nps.gov/zion/planyourvisit/thesubway.htm
Tom
This is sad.
Subway always held a special place for me because of the fact that you could show up on a hot summer day with just swimming trunks, good shoes, and a few feet of rope.
It was my first canyon many many years ago, and was with the Boy Scouts. We had a fantastic time and I felt like we had just gone through a huge adventure. Amazing. Didn't use harnesses then, and don't now when I take friends.
With an experienced person going first so that there is someone on the bottom to spot in the event someone falls, I don't think any of the hand lines are especially high risk. Although I always tend to be the one to get stuck in the cold water....
Is sad that access to the low slanting face on the final rappel may be disappearing soon.
Is also surprising that it is considered negligence to take someone on the subway sans harnesses.
Sometimes it's just nice to leave the gear at home on a hot summer day with low water flow. Oh well. The Subway will still be worth doing even if I do need to bring harnesses along.
It is not REQUIRED that you bring harnesses and rappel. But, if you are leading innocent victims into its maw, it is recommended that you at least have that capability. Make your own choices, live by the consequences. If your friend falls badly and loses use of their legs, and since the Park recommends something and you did not do it, you will lose all your possessions.
Just sayin'...
Tom
I thinking those logs disappearing at the final rappel will be a good thing. As it will eliminate a large number of gumbie canyoneers doing the top down route.
I figure once the logs wash out you will have to rappel the final drop. I'm sure the NPS will be notified of the new obstacle almost immediately because they will be forced to conduct a couple dozen rescues...... after that I assume they will put some type of notification in place warning the canyon has change and now requires technical gear..... could also make signing off on a notification part of picking up your permit.
And I figure that will take care of about 90% of the gumbies.... the other 10% will continue to try the route and end up in trouble, but you can't fix stupid.
Anyhoo.... that's what I see peering into my crystal ball.
:popcorn:
Couldn't you still jump across?
I would hope that I was devastated that something terrible happened to a friend. Not about the loss of my possessions. This is why I think all of us try to minimize risk as much as we can. Not because we are worried about lawsuits, but because we feel a responsibility to those we take with us and that put their trust in us.
We all want to increase safety, but that always means trade offs. Otherwise we would just stay inside.
Let's all be safe out there.
I don't think I'd agree. Dating back to ages 11 & 13, we've climbed up and down that drop many times. In the 1980's there used to be a big log that aided the ascent, but it was hard to downclimb and we used to just downclimb the drop that is the rappel. Now days, many people still climb up and down that drop (partner assist at the bottom), especially those hiking in from the bottom because they usually don't bring harness and rope.Quote:
I figure once the logs wash out you will have to rappel the final drop.
Lest anyone understand, I am not recommending anyone downclimb that drop as it is easy to break an ankle on the last few feet. Rappelling it is much safer. What I am saying is that people will still upclimb and downclimb it with or without the logs and that I don't think rescues will go down that much.
Hope I am not resurrecting a thread that is too old, but I am insterested...
Anyone have any update on these logs used to traverse over to the left side for the handline? Will be going down Memorial Day weekend, would be good information to have.
Logs are there and in good condition. There is also new webbing on Tom's new anchors also. We went through on April 28, 2013
i have always handlined Subway and Orderville due to the fact that i don't feel it is nessisary to bring the gear. Tom is rigt about scouting groups it is a pain in the but to go through all the training and nessisary equiptment to take a official scout group down a technical slot canyon.
Just curious do you think on the new achor at Keyhole could you use a J-hook around your foot for added friction and handline down that way. Its the way we CrossFitter's climb rope. Just a thought.
A harness would abvioulsy be the safter route.