uinta pack trip

so I got a step kid at 18 and my middle son at 15, neither in great shape, but the younger of the two is 6'2" and 140 lbs, and Im working on getting both of them into shape!
For once they want to do a pack trip. Normally I like to head into the 3 basins of the still water, or maybe pinto lake.
Pinto is a bitch! 7miles downhill and then 7 uphill! going and coming. the basins in still water are great, the trail is nice, and i know the area really well. but Id like to find some place new, no more than 10 miles each way, and with decent trails to take these two on their first trip.
trying to schedule it for end of july, first of august.
I have tons of books and maps, and know alto of the areas, but was looking for anyones opinion based on going instead of just what i find in books and maps. Id like to do grand daddy, but its always so damned crowded that Iv ruled it out right off.
Years ago I took my then 16 year old nephew into Ryder Lake, up the bottom and nearly killed him. He was exhausted for a week after that trip and had a hard time making it out 3 days after packing in.
Id like to avoid that as I hate to ruin them for future trips.
Any suggestions as to good fishing, nice scenery, low crowds and less than 10 miles each way?

Notch Lake from the bald mountain trailhead or Betsy Lake in the grand daddy lakes area. I enjoyed both as a teenager and the hike is not bad to either. I can't vouch for the crowds currently since my teenage years are small in the rear view mirror.

Unfortunately I haven't been there as much since moving to CO in 2001, I have hiked most trails in the Uinta Mountains are here are my top recommendations that would fit the criteria. Most "good" trails will have people on weekends and I don't know what you would call crowded, so here are several possibities.

For scenery, I would really recommend Allsop Lake from East fork Bear River or Deadhorse Lake from West Fork Blacks Fork. There will be people there, but less than say Henrys Fork, Naturalist Basin or Stillwater Fork.

If you wanted a bit less people, Norice and Priord Lakes share the same trailhead as Allsop Lake, but see less visitation. The trail is good to Norice Lake and fades to Priord (at least did in the 90's), but it's easy to find the way to Priord without it.

The trail to the Red Castle area from the East Fork Blacks Fork is highly scenic, not to crowded and easy to follow. It does however have quite a bit of elevation gain at first, but not bad after you top out. You can also make a good loop over the pass south of Upper Red Castle and down the Little East Fork, but you have to know how to read a map and route find. Other wise you can return the same way.

Farther east, Beaver lake has a good trail, but usually isn't too crowded. Cleaveland/Quent also farther east usually isn't too crowded, but does see a fair amount of use though you can do many side trips to get away from the people.

If you want a one way hike, I like the Hayden Pass, over Rocky Sea Pass to Lightning Lake, over the pass to Priord Lake and down to East Fork Bear River. The hard part is crossing the pass from Helen Lake to Priord Lake. That part of the trail was mostly faded in the 1990's, but we cairned it a little more each time we went over. There are still rockslides to contend with on the north side of the pass, but it isn't that bad (just make sure to find the trail before going down). It is fairly challenging in that section, so you may want a different hike, though it is a favorite of mine.

what would I call crowded?
naturalist basin, mirror lake, ruth lake, those are corwded no matter what time or what day.

As far as a good trail I was thinking, not a shale slide, not over grown in thorns, not along a cliff side.. like that, route finding Im OK with.

Now I gotta go find my books and maps and start looking into the suggestions Iv gotten from here!
I assume all the suggestions Iv gotten so far all end up being inside the wilderness boundaries? that apparently is part of the criteria I wasnt aware of till a few minutes ago when I was outside with my 15 year old and he was talking about the pack trip while helping me clear weeds from the garden.
I was thinking about a trip into crystal lake and wall lake after advising someone else about that same area earlier today in another post, now that i know it HAS to be inside the wilderness area, I got to make sure I provide that aspect for their first pack trip.
I also was hoping to find a way to schedule it for weekdays, say a monday tuesday wendsday trip to avoid some crowds, but I gotta work, startinga new job doesnt lend itself to taking vacation a month or two after starting :D and the 18 year old step kid has work as well. so we shall see how that works out, may well end up being a friday night start and a return on sunday. Just leave around midnight on friday and walk through the dark, get the worst start off done while its cool and be in camp early.
Iv done it plenty of times when I went alone, I dunno though about taking those two in the dark for 6 or 7 hours through the woods waiting on sun up.

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what would I call crowded?

naturalist basin, mirror lake, ruth lake, those are corwded no matter what time or what day.

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The ones I listed won't be as crowded as the ones you list above. They will have a few groups over the weekend though.

If you don't mind route finding, in some areas (such as Upper Rock Creek between Rocky Sea Pass and Priord Lake) you can basically find a lake all to yourselves if there are people at another one. Allsop and Deadhorse other than Ejod only have one lake so you won't have that one to yourself, though there is still plenty of room around.

The above are pretty good trails, but if you really want to get off the beaten track there still are many places (since you mention you can routefind), but some require more than 10 miles, however I would start out with one of the above before getting too far off the beaten track.

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I assume all the suggestions Iv gotten so far all end up being inside the wilderness boundaries?

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All except for Notch Lake mentioned by Scott Card and Cleveland/Quent mentioned by me are within the wilderness boundary.

Going on my own or with my brother or select friends I dont mind 50 mile trips, this is the first trip with the kids and the first trip for either of them, I just really dont want to go to far, too hard and ruin them for ever going again. I want to encourage them to do it, not beat them half to death, show em how bad it can get and wear them to nothing so they sleep in a tent for 3 days before walking out with out ever taking a hike or wetting a line.
Im trying to avoid hurting them, an easy trek to get them started and make them want to go again.
funny, the worse my trip is the harder it is the more Im hurt from doing it the fonder i Look back on it after its over, but it sure is a bitch when Im doing it!

Ah, good thread. I plan to be in the Uintas come August and looking for a solo BP trip. I did the three basins Ryder, Amythest and Kermsuh (spelling??) a few years ago. Quite a few people at Ryder, but nobody at Kermsuh and only a few at Amythest Lake.

I've been looking at the Red Castle area and any others people would suggest. Longer loop possible the better. I have 6 days to BP, and a couple of driving days each end.

6 days? interested in fishing or just the pack?
if you had a ride arranged Iv started by the scout camp on mirror lake highway to get the trail head for high line and came out at moon lake. we did it in 4 days :D no time to enjoy anything really just walk camp walk, 6 dys would be kick ass.
last 3 times I was in Ryder I was alone, well not alone, but no one but my group there, amethyst too, and I have never seen anyone at kermsuh. pinto lake is a nice lake, good fishing and nice area, 7 miles downhill start it then 7 miles uphill to get to it. You could always do the 30 miles into kings peak and stay at 4 lakes. we did that in 4 days too. pack in, summit on day 2, rest on day 3 and out on day 4. with 6 days you could have alot of time for fishing and hiking and pictures.
If your a real bad ass, I suggest thompsons lake :twisted: its not the distance as much as that you cant really camp at the lake, its all above timberline, alot of the approach is boulder hopping I wouldnt want to do in a back pack, and Iv seen fish that had to be close to 2 pounds come out of it. Gotta be careful, I dont think its stocked and its not a huge lake, but NOONE goes there.

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suggest thompsons lake its not the distance as much as that you cant really camp at the lake,

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If interested, there are some campsites (for a small group) on the north east side in a small group of trees just eas of the lake.

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Gotta be careful, I dont think its stocked and its not a huge lake, but NOONE goes there.

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It is stocked and the fishing is pretty good. A fair amount of people (by standards of an off-trail lake in the Uintas) come over to fish from Four Lakes Basin, but not too many people camp there so you'll probably have the lake to yourself. It's a harder route than Rocky Sea Pass, but Thompson Lake also makes a nice alternate route to Upper Rock Creek if you skirt around the ridge to the east and head north. Once you start heading north along the base of the ridge, the route gets to be easier walking and you head west and north to the east base of Rocky Sea Pass.

Also, while on the way to Cyclone Pass, scour the slopes east of Four Lakes Basin to find parts of an old place crash if interested.

Looking at a map right now thinking Bald mtn to Red Castle area then over Smith's Fork to Highline then a cross over to the Little East Fork either via Tungsten Pass or a larger loop along Yellowstone Creek and back by Five Point Lake and then back on the Little East Fork.
Course, don't know how many miles that is----will have to TOPO it to see.

I usually go on 15 trips a year into the Uintas - solo. I hate the crowds and have found the following areas make for a good experience with minimal effort.

I posted an earlier trip report of the Little East Fork Blacks Fork. It is an easy hike to the upper reaches - probably only 6 miles. There are several lakes you have to navigate to that can be up to 10 miles from the trail head. I camped at the 2nd lake closest to the trail head last year and only saw 4 other folks the entire week, and they were passing through. I would recommend making your camp in the lower meadows down by the stream and hiking up to the lakes as they are on a steep bench. The river, and most of the lakes have really good fishing - nothing big, but fast fishing if hit at the right time. I day hike to the upper meadows and fish all the time. It is very scenic, uncrowded, and a gem. Last year I saw over 40 moose and a bunch of elk in this area. I usually wouldn't even post something like this on a public forum, but I heard a lot about it on a Doug Miller Show, and that Probst brothers book talks about it.

Another area that is a bang for your buck backpack trip with few crowds and good fishing is the Burnt Fork Drainage. I have had great success - especially if you camp at one of the lakes not near the trail. I would worry about this area if you thought Ryder lake trail was tough.

Red Castle, Henry's Fork, Naturalist, Granddaddy, Four Lakes, and Stillwater are the busiest places in the Uintas, but I have been able to successfully find solitude in each area and have a heck of a good time fishing. IMHO Granddaddy is not very scenic as far as Uinta areas go, but it is an easy hike. I camped at a lake off trail last year in the Granddaddy and came across a forest ranger who was in the area and he made sure I knew the rules and was camping the minimal distance from the lake. They are really enforcing all the rules in that area which is good to see.

I think ryder is rough, if your out of shape, or if its your first ever trip.
Im not allowed to make solo trips very often, the wife worries too much, hell she gets freaked out if I go alone into the stansbury mountains, let alone the uintas.
What do ya think of dogs in that area? I got a puppy, will be a year old by the time we do the trip, Aussie Sheppard, smart as any dog I have ever seen.
I keep my dogs leashed, even packing, but a 60 foot leash at night if shes out of the tent, and a 6 footer for walking trails.
Its her first trip too. Iv heard a lot about moose hating dogs, but I dont know it to be true or not. Shes about 80 lbs now and pretty much full grown.
Shes a good dog, but really protective of me and my kids. so long as she can see me, friendly with new people, unless they havea hat on, and mean as shit if Im not around. Unless your an animal! she thinks all animals are her new best friend. Not for sure Ill take her this trip, maybe start her off on camping trips by the car and take her later on when shes used to the woods, see how she does a few trips before I take her packing.
For the record, Im in pretty decent shape, and in pretty damned good shape by the middle of packing season, its the kids I worry about. Just hate to take em on too much of a trip and ruin them for the future.

Taking a dog shouldn't be much of a problem, as it sounds like you're responsible with the the way the dog is handled. I had a dog with me that was blind, deaf, and a little dumb in another area with a lot of moose. The moose ignored her until she finally saw one and went after it - then the moose ran off and our dog came back. There were a few cow and calf combinations up there, and that is a different thing altogether. I have found the North Slope - Eastern areas - Burnt Fork, Beaver Creek, Gilbert - have some of the most spectacular wildlife in the range. The one thing I forgot to mention about the Little East Fork Blacks Fork - there are 3 river crossings that are either on skinny logs or rock to rock - I got very wet my first time up there as the river was high.

Ryder lake is where I spent my first solo night. I agree that it can be a long hike - crossing Ostler creek on that bouncy log bridge scared the crap out of me - now it is gone. It took a lot of Tylenol PM and other goodies to knock me out so I could sleep. I leave a very detailed itinerary with somebody I trust, and I don't change plans. I am thinking of going solo in the Windrivers this year, but am a little nervous. I feel very comfortable in the Uintas being by myself.

The wind rivers?
Im all for solo experiences, Nothing is as great as when the sun goes down and you hear all those noises in the woods, wondering what is out there, and if its coming for you, and still waking up alive and well in the morning. It almost feels like a real accomplishment.
Just a few miles past the wilderness boundary on the way to ryder I pitched a tent and stayed alone one night. Had a late start and didnt get as many miles as Id hoped for a solo trip to Amethyst after getting off work. I was tired, nearly out of light and wanted to rest and do some fishing.
That night about 2 am I was woken up by a large animal in my camp. I slowly unzipped the opening to the tent to see the bear with my pistol in my hand. 5 feet from my tent, on the side where i couldnt see, was where it was at. I could hear it, but not see it.
I sat in the dark with moon light coming through the pines facing the wall of the tent listening to the bear root around. It got a bit closer and then came into view. 2 feet outside my tent door was a huge ass bull moose!
I was relieved it wasnt a bear, and then the videos of moose stomping people to death entered my mind. I thought well, Ill just stay in the tent and its gonna walk off soon. It then occurred to me that in side a plastic bag was not a good place to be if a moose was stomping the crap out of you. Being the dumb ass I am I lit a smoke, thats when the moose spun around to face me, now about 15 feet off. Good job retard! flick the bic and light yourself up with a red glow from the cherry on a smoke! I sat there not daring to draw a drag from the cig, and at the same time desperately wanting one. He stared at me for maybe 30 seconds, but it felt like an hour. then walked off past my camp and sloshing into the river. I chain smoked 3 smokes after that :D The rest of the night I got little sleep, woke up at every single noise I heard. Aside from being a little kid, fresh from a viewing of "An American Werewolf in London" walking home from a friends cutting through the school yard on a full moon in a huge field/playground alone, I have never been as scared as I was that ENTIRE night.
Never had a repeat, never dealt with a bear in my camp. Once a dog that we thought was a bear in the campground at teapot. My wife was in a ball in the bottom of her sleeping bag and I was sent outside to solve the problem.
The guy camped next door had his dog dig a hole in the bottom of his tent and get out, he was walking around looking for the damned dog, and he saw the dog the same time my pistol did. I was relieved to see it was a dog, he was pooping his pants thinking I was gonna shoot his dog. :roflol:
With 2 days left of a weekend he left that night, we stuck around only to find out on the last afternoon that the people on the camp two up from us had had a bear bothering the trailer they were in for 2 nights in a row.

Now Im just rambling :D
the point was Im MOSTLY comfortable in the uintas alone, but Iv been in the wind river range, and that is a scary F****ing place, even with people in my camp packing in to bag the summit.
If I were you, Id make a trip with someone, then decide if your ready to do them alone.
Or at least take a gps and a spot, its beautiful, and long, and you can get turned around easy in there and your pretty much really alone. We got caught in a snow storm that started as rain in July, stuck around for 2 days and sent us home with no summit. I would of hated to have been there alone then.

Interesting--I do a lot of my trips alone--66 miles in the Gila Wilderness, along the Escalante River, my one and only Uinta trip was solo. I did a 50 mile trek in the Winds, part of it sort of off trail ( no trail on map but was on the ground) with a friend and I felt completely comfortable out there
In fact, I considered going back to a certain valley that was spectacular solo, but decided I wanted a new place to go.

I don't feel threatened at all by animals--- just keep a clean camp and use common sense and all is good. In Arizona we have plenty of black bears in the mountains and all the areas I usually hike is bear territory. I've seen several. Been as close as 20 feet to a mountain lion behind a rock in the Santa Teresa's. Lots of rattlesnake sightings, but that's usually as I am crawling into a cave, they like the cool entrances.

The best thing about solo hiking is you can do as many or few miles as you want, modify your plans, turn around and go back or whatever, hike longer, shorter, take more pictures. I really enjoy it.