Darby Wind caves Beta

I know there have been other beta's about this cave. I used one and I found it lacking in some areas so I wrote my own. The original has pictures to go along with the text but It wont let me :(

Darby Beta
The darby cave system is a serious cave system. There is a reason there is a sign that says in the entrance that technical climbing equipment is required. In the cave you will be getting wet, squeezing through spaces, repelling off of large repels, stemming over water and rocks, and doing this for at least six hours (If you already know the way and rush it) though don't be surprised if you spend over twelve.

Ice Cave Entrance

There are two entrances to the cave system. The more glamorous one that you see on the way up (the one with the waterfall coming out of it) is the exit. Just before heading up the switchbacks to the wind cave there should be a branch in the trail. Take it and it will follow the rock field on the valley floor. There will be a line of trees growing up the rock field toward the cliff. Ice is just beyond that around the bend in the cliff. Its just under half a mile to the ice cave entrance but you will have to climb the rock scramble at some point, there is no graceful way to do it.
View looking up valley from Ice entrance
The entrance is a crack in the cliff (not nearly as big as the other) with a rock to climb up to actually get into the entrance.

Entrance to Ice Room

The cave at this point only has one way to go. you will have some water under foot at first but this will firm up to ice fairly quickly. There will be a short easy up climb up some boulders then you will be on the frozen river. This will continue with bends here and there with the occasional slide down of about a foot or two becoming more frequent as you go. You will then hit the first rappel. It is short and is at about a 45 angle downward. The anchors are on the right side wall.
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]In emergencies where you need to get back and you have already pulled ropes there is a rock wall to the left (facing into the cave) that is climbable but is slick and should be reserved for emergencies. Continuing along the frozen river, you will continue having slight descents until you reach the 2nd rappel part one. The anchors are again on the right. The rappel is little more than a slide down to a flat ice sheet. I would not recommend just sliding down this as right after that sheet is a sheer drop of at least sixty feet into the ice room. Once down the

Another reason to drop a rope at the pit before starting is that a second ice plug often forms between the pit and the wind cave exit.

You can post pictures and links after you have made five posts to bogley.

Thanks for the beta. I did this cave last year and it was awesome.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

Comments: Don't use the slang term "beta" to describe cave information. This term is used only by some climbers and the cavers you talk to won't understand it. Also they will think you are a climber/spelunker.

Stemming above the stream in the middle part of the cave is a bad idea. It makes the trip much more strenuous and dangerous than it needs to be. If you fall and receive even a minor injury and have trouble continuing you will be in danger of hypothermia. The real danger of a cave like FMIC is cold. As long as you are moving you can stay warm but even so it's a challenge to stay warm in a freezing wet cave. The real way to do this is to wear wetsuit feet in your boots and wetsuit bottoms. Then you can just walk down the stream and through Crotch Lake while staying warm. Wading through waist-deep icy water naked is unpleasant and dangerous.

I'm a caver and I understand the term "beta". In fact, I would be willing to bet that most western cavers not only know the term, but use it frequently. In my circles, we talk and ask about "cave beta" all the time. So I wouldn't lose any sleep over that.

The only thing that is not quite customary (yet) is posting such detailed cave beta on webpages the way it is routinely done for canyons. But, the times they are a-changin, and we cavers are getting more used to it. It is an interesting point of discussion for "Darby Wind Cave", which cavers call by its official name, the Fossil Mtn Ice - Wind Cave System. This cave is routinely done by relatively inexperienced people, very few of which would consider themselves cavers. You can count on at least two rescues a year out of that place due to inexperience, ill-preparation, and just plain bad decisions. Publication and promotion are what have led to this situation, where many other difficult caves in the area remain on the down-low. For cold alpine caves, and pull-down through trips in general, it is usually better to go with someone that knows the cave, rather than striking out on your own with some interwebs beta. However, now that the cat is out of the bag, one wonders if detailed beta will serve to curtail future incidents, or will just entice more ill-prepared noobs to get stuck, trapped, lost, etc. I don't know the answer...

I will say that I have done the through trip twice. It is a blast! Really fun. Both times I have gone with other experienced cavers and it is bewildering to us that anyone would attempt this trip without extensive vertical experience, proper equipment, cave suits and poly layers, a map, or ascenders. Yet it happens weekend after weekend up there...

This cave is cold, and will eat you if you don't enter it with respect for its hazards. Going in the top entrance without first leaving a rope at the bottom pit and checking for the ice plug is very foolish. Yet, people get stuck in there every year! I would also assert that if it takes you twelve hours to do this through trip then UR DOIN IT WRONG. The first time we went with 9 people, and it took 6 hours. Last year, four of us did the trip entrance to entrance in 4.5 hours. We were not rushing, just trying to show you the difference that experience can make. No matter how much interwebs beta you have, it is better to try and go with someone that can show you the way. Caves are not canyons, and the human touch can make all the difference.

The sign at the entrance calls it the Darby Ice Cave, that's good enough for me ;-)

I consider my canyoneering skills to be god like, but I'm a noob when it comes to caves .... there is no way in hell I would attempt this cave without experienced people along. The 3 dimensional world of caves is totally different from canyons.

FWIW- my daughter and I wore our neoprene canyoneering socks and shoes and our feet never got cold walking the stream.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

Canyon Caver makes some good points. The real way to learn about the cave is to do it with someone that knows the way. This is why the mappers have never published the map. Would it really be of public benefit or just embolden people that aren't qualified to do it to get in trouble? In other words the law of unintented consequences. Canyon caver mentions doing the through trip with nine people. In my opinion this is too many. You have to wait too long at the drops, etc. with a large party. You are faster and so, safer with a small party.

When I did this cave I was aware of the dangers and the people always getting stuck. We did not have a guide but made it through. I made sure everyone one was ready in everything including ascending experience. I would agree that the best way through the stemming portion is just to grit your teeth and walk it, as that's why this trip took 12 hours. The difference is really in what you wear. I had wool socks and poly thermals and I was never cold.
I suppose its true that having detailed betas could embolden the ill prepared, but maybe if the danger points are emphasized enough it could reduce. I'm not sure. Releasing the map would be a bad idea for just that reason. I didn't post the map I have for that reason.

Delimetrius: check your private messages.