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For what it's worth.... My posts are being moderated (read being removed) from Comrade Collective.
Here is the tread where my comment was removed:
http://canyoncollective.com/threads/...-sherpa.25304/
I assume it was removed since I was against paid canyon sherpa's. There was nothing in my comment that was not accurate or factual.
Now I remember why I seldom visit or post over on 'Comrade Collective'.
I guess that's what happens when you don't march to the beat of their drummer.
Lol “empty sandbox”. I assume Bill is referring to Bogley. Didn’t he start here, then he splintered off and started Backcountrypost and admins CC now?
Anyway...
Just curious - what did you say besides being against it?
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Ha. nice. I'm also curious what you said that got your post removed.
I'm sure it was scandalous.
"I would never use a canyon sherpa, but than again, I pee standing up. Your mileage may vary."
I believe that's a direct quote, but it's from memory as I can't really see what I wrote because it was deleted.
Heavy moderation was actually one of the main reasons Bogley came into being as several contributors to the Yahoo Canyon Group (which eventually became CC) were being moderated for refusing to march in step and take the blue pill.
[emoji631]
I don't know Bill, but I am pretty sure the guy who started backcountrypost is named Nick.Quote:
Originally Posted by jman
Add me to the list of people who'd like to see what you posted.
Scathing indeed. Apparently, nobody can take a joke anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
There is WAAAAAYYYY more history to CC, Bogley and the Yahoo Groups then that. All the old timers know the backstory.Quote:
Originally Posted by uintafly
Kind of the reason I decide to try posting on CC was I figured all the bad blood was gone, but I was wrong.... maybe I'll try visiting or posting over there in another 5 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
^^^You know damn well that if Mr. Ransom or You-Know-Who-From-SLC made that comment it would still be alive, and it just might have a few LOL's from the CC faithful in reply.
It's a popularity contest over there. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.
I find it amusing that one of the things that defines them is their overwhelming disdain for anything Bogley. Like they hate Bogley as much as Trump supporters hate Obama, or as much as Bernie supporters hate Hillary. And really there's very little of substance to back those attitudes.
Seems pretty benign, but in todays age everyone is looking to find a reason to be offended. If there is a history it makes it even easier to find something to cry about. Just be grateful you didn't wear a Chinese prom gown, then you'd really be screwed. :roflol:
"I would love to use a canyon sherpa, but than again, I pee sitting down. Your mileage may vary."
Maybe I should have went in a different direction, something more like the above. What do you think?
[emoji38]
Well, your unbridled masculinity in the first post really seems to have triggered them in a negative way.
I mean, they had two whole people complain about it, so it seemed necessary to remove a post for the 4th time in the site's history. That's one harmonious crowd over there that they can be around for that long with only 4 posts being edited or removed if they'll do it after receiving 2 complaints.
Don't worry though, they said there aren't any secret handshakes and it's not a conspiracy. So it's all on the up and up.
I'm calling bullshit on their lame response. The post was up for less then 5 minutes and anyone with any commonsense knows there was not 2 complaints in less then 5 minutes, if for no other reason then the crew at CC just doesn't bitch that fast. They first have to consult with "The Great Ones"[emoji768] and hold public polls to see what their opinion should be.
My God, can you imagine the number of complaints they would have to deal with if they left the post up for a full 60 minutes?!? LMAO
Anyhoo... no skin off my butt. If they don't want any alpha males at their feminist rally I'm happy to respect their wishes.
[emoji631]
Attachment 89475
did they hurt your widdle feelins???
That's so cute... you think I actually have feelings.Quote:
Originally Posted by ratagonia
Bless your heart.
[emoji631]
Does this old feud have more to do with sharing of beta, perspective of how to go through canyons, political perspective or all of the above. I was just getting into this stuff back when the split happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcweyen
All of the above. As I mentioned in a previous response, I believe there is VERY LITTLE substance to all of these crappy attitudes and negative banter. Most of it is just ego driven. I've lived through the drama, and I know who the players are.
It's really a shame that the canyoneering community has become so polarized. It's unfortunate that to really get immersed in the canyoneering social structure, one necessarily has to choose a side. Like the Democrats and Republicans, or Montagues and Capulets. Both sides arrogantly and cavalierly think they are justified in their own behavior while the other side are a bunch of self righteous assholes. Why that is...I don't know. Pride? Ego? Probably.
In the immortal words of Rodney King: "Can't we all just get along?"
I was wondering when they would finally go Gender Neutral over there
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Mistakes were made on both sides. Ultimately they took their their ball and went home. They decided to abandon the dark side and build their own universe.
It’s all water under the bridge for me. I’ve got enough drama in my life raising 4 kids.
I agree with rockgremlin and its been proven time and time again that some of the canyoneering crowd has an elitist attitude
It's a lot more complicated then just two sides. Think more like the middle East conflict.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
The original battle lines were among three main groups, the ACA (American Canyoneering Association), Yahoo Canyons (now Comrade Collective) and Bogley.
Most folks supported one or two, but not all three sides. And then there are a bunch of smaller satellite groups like the Colorado and California meet up groups.
And yes the battle involved all aspects of canyoneering. Canyon ethics, dispensing of beta, schooling, how to interact with land managers, who controlled the forums, and who was profitting from the sport were just some of the major points of conflict.
When I posted in CC yesterday I honestly thought much of the hate had disappeared, but I was wrong. Lesson learned.
Plain and simple, beatdown in political debates. It's a shame that unchecked political debate can be polarizing. But if not on bogley, then on anywhere else the opposing mindsets mingle and chat. We still see it on Facebook.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcweyen
Some will say it's a difference of opinion on other canyon topics, which will always exist, but that's not why you leave a group. You leave a group because you let yourself get too involved and too heated in a political debate and got your ass handed to you (even if you were right).
Those who come out on top of political, religious debates aren't the ones to leave. They stick around to gloat about it. That's why I'm still here, I haven't lost yet! Jk, I'm still here because some of the new registrations don't check their spam folder for the confirmation link ha ha.
The thing is, if the political debate didn't happen here, it would have (and still does) on Facebook and other online groups. Bogley is a popular scapegoat because we made the hard decision to allow free speech and self control, even though 90% of the main players were on the yahoo groups and were then members on bogley, some will try to deny bogley even existed and want to pretend they all met on Flickr and Facebook.
Make no mistake, these different groups would still exist today even if bogley chopped out all arguments and played full time Internet police. They'd find ways to fight on Facebook and would still split off to group up with other friendlies and call it tolerance.
14 years later, here we are, still with healthy online discussion.
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Damn, here I have been canyoneering with my friends and saying hello to strangers in canyons all while not knowing there was a civil war raging in the dark corners of Zion (the state, not the park which is known locally as Zions).
I certainly have no beef with CC and find it a great resource for beta, techniques and reading about some cool canyons. But it's definitely more of a niche site and I have more interests than just canyons. Plus this site needs at least one liberal to bring some sanity to the tea party.
^^^I like this analysis, Beech.
I still don't understand the elitist attitudes that are so prevalent. Arrogant certitude. Plain and simple.
I also can't understand the notion of burning books in the name of "tolerance." -- Somebody please explain this one to me. Serious request.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uintafly
@Uintahfly is living proof that it's possible to be liberal and thick-skinned. :haha:
This has little or to nothing to do with the recent political beatdowns.... this is a battle that has been waged for the past 20 years. This battle is at least 5 years older then Bogley as all the Bogley canyoneers originally migrated over from a group known as Yahoo Canyoneers, which was at odds with the Yahoo Canyons group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
The part I find the most comical in all of this is I bet 90% of those waging war don't know exactly what they are fighting for, they have just been told so-and-so is the enemy and so they pick up a sword and charge blindly into battle following their fearless leaders.
I have no clue who Bill is, other then he is apparently the one who moderated me yesterday. But I'll wager any amount of money he has zero clue about the nuances of the canyon conflicts and why he did what he did, other then he has been conditioned to hate all things Bogley. Rockgremlin was correct in that if one of "their guys" had of posted what I did nothing would have been moderated. If they actually received complaints it was really about who posted and not the content.
There are probably only 20 canyoneers of the senior canyoneering community still left in the sport that can actually detail where and why the battle lines were originally drawn. Most of those involved in the original conflicts have just aged out of the sport or moved on to other endeavors.
:bert:
You are certainly in the majority.... 99% of canyoneers are not on a side or could care less, they just like canyons. Too bad some still carry their ancient grudge around in a paper sack.Quote:
Originally Posted by uintafly
Yeah, but you're not a typical liberal, you actually battle with facts and commonsense, instead of just emotions and dreams.Quote:
Originally Posted by uintafly
:2thumbs:
Bill is the kind hearted gentleman who proved he's always got my back and was concerned about me flying my drone illegally over Little Wild Horse Slot Canyon. Once there was no immediate threat to be found, my thread disappeared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Yes, censorship is surely rare with certain people, right?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
See, this is what I'm talking about. WHY the incessant censorship?
I'm gonna try and not be super lame and point to the fact that the Nazis also burned books in the name of censorship....nope, not gonna do that.
That's impossible as they have only ever been forced to moderate 4 posts before and I was responsible for at least 10 of those 4 posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
ROFLMAO
That's possible, but from an admin point of view, all of the complaining and demands for change come after a heated political debate. The opposing theories of bolt vs no bolt, beta vs no beta, canyoneering poo poo like that always seems to get hashed out in healthy discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
But boy oh boy do we get them demands once the political stuff gets heated. Speaking of somebody already mentioned in this thread, he made demands that I make it possible to use the "Ignore" function on admins and moderators, or else he would leave. I stayed up all night making it happen, editing this plugin, doing some coding, and he left anyways.
That right there is the last time I ever fulfilled special demands by somebody threatening to leave if we didn't program the forum to run a certain way. Take it or leave it. Post your own healthy discussions if everything you're reading currently sucks.
LMAO.... I'm not mature enough to not click on certain individuals threads, can you please hold my hand and do it for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
If that's not the textbook definition of a liberal I don't know what is.
I never signed up over there 'cuz I suspected they'd ban my ass within a week.
I just returned from a two week vacation...one week of which was spent in the most "sacred" of canyons off Lake Powell. One of the guys I was with asked me not to identify him as being in any pictures of the slots in there. He and I had quite a lengthy (and cordial) discussion about the reasons why. I won't go into our discussion too much, but he's a pure badass canyoneer and he has friends that frequent this site as well as the other. My impression is that he just doesn't want to get involved in the "beta" controversy and wants to preserve the friendships with those guys in particular. Some of those guys at CC really get into some SERIOUS canyons, and that's something he's keen to in particular.
I'm going to respect his wishes and will not post a trip report of the area we were in at all. I want to preserve my friendship with him as well...he's one of the coolest dudes I've ever met.
With that said, I"ll slap one up of an epic dayhike I did by myself.
I haven't a clue what this "war" is all about or even who these dudes are over there...and I couldn't care less. I will say however, that every single person I've met and done things with have been nothing less than fun and kind...regardless of politics, beta stance, etc...
Funny how different some can be in person versus online.
I think we all respect that, but if any pictures get posted by this person over on CC after saying all of that, there would be undeniable hypocrisyQuote:
Originally Posted by twotimer
I would totally agree with this...but I can guarantee that 'aint going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
I would love to post up about what was done and where we were...but that 'aint going to happen either. I'm tempted, but I made a promise.
Funny...I have nothing to do with that crowd but have to oblige them in a six degrees of separation kind of way. Normally, I'd throw up a middle finger.
Yeah well I’ve spent a small fortune in safety rigging self rescue training.
You can definitely buy friends over at Comrade collective by utilizing their favorite capitalist companies.
Their beloved local monopolies.