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Omg the entire supreme court is composed of bigots
...Don't mind me, I'm just making a stereotypical closed minded statement
X2Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
No worries, we expect them from youQuote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Sad that they ruled this way, but it really is a temporary thing until the appeals court rules anyhow... things will go back to they way they should be with people marrying whoever they want.
I noticed you haven't accused the supreme court of bigotry, you must hate gays.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOSS
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Well since I actually understand that they have ruled on a point of law and procedure not on the idea of marriage being open to all people I don't think that the supreme court is full of bigots. I do as a matter of course find that you are full of inability to read and comprehend things of a legal nature that your bishop didn't tell you about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Oh i didn't know my bishop had spoken to me at all concerning gay marriage. Please tell me what other stereotypical anti Mormon bigoted fantasies you've dreamt up.
Interesting how you're mentioning your knowledge of law and procedure now, and not last week.
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The supreme court has made NO decision regarding gay marriage so it is hard to fault them.... the only thing the supreme court has done to date is their job.... which is interrupt the constitution and laws of the land.
I'm willing to let this play out in a timely manner and make sure it is done correctly and not on wild emotions. We need to give the court's the time to do their job right, after all, that is what we pay them for.
I suspect gay rights will prevail in the end.
Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
This is what should have happened in the first place rather than dividing the people on emotional linesQuote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Look at the confusion now, caused by a judge that acted out of emotion and not due process.
I don't care what side anybody is on, this was a mess. Lets quit the bigotry name calling towards us who aren't anti gay, open your minds a little more and realize that if somebody disagrees with the political process that has happened it doesn't mean they are a freaking bigot.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
As they should.
You know, I think I've figured it out....Mormons believe in upholding "the laws of the land."
D&C 98:6 - Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the aconstitutional law of the land.
If the constitutional law upholds gay rights, it also means that Mormons must also uphold gay rights -- which is akin to asking Nancy Pelosi to uphold the right to bear arms.
FYI Shelby's job was to make that ruling.. you may want to look at how the court system works again if you think otherwise... sigh.. please take a civics classQuote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Interesting how the same people claiming to have religion shoved down their throats are the same people who bring it up all the time.
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What can't respond to the "fact" that it was Shelby's job to rule on this.. you have to go back to how bad you feel about the fact that Religion in Utah is a large part of why this is even an issue... Have you taken that civics class yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Oh so Utah is the last state to allow gay marriage? Another interesting statement, my friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOSS
Unless there are other states with a Mormon majority that don't allow gay marriage yet. I'll be back, gotta run to the internet to see what other Mormon dominated states haven't allowed this yet, and in turn how your reasoning would blame mormonism for the delay.
Or, if the Mormon state is the first of the religious majority states to allow gay marriage, that would make us the most tolerant religious state in the union.
And yet if there are other states that have no dedicated religious majority, could you blame the state religion for holding them back?
That's quite the pickle to debate. This should be good.
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Here I'll save you the trouble. All of the pink states....
How many voters do you think are being influenced by their "bishops"?
Attachment 71435
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Man, I think so far as controversial issues go, this whole 'mess' has been pretty tame, especially compared to the rest of the ridiculousness of the past few years. I also think that being upset with the political process, especially since in this case it is a legal process, is a pretty lame excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
So what exactly are your emotional attachments to this and what consequences have there been to you as a result of this division?
Do you think those emotional hardships have been anywhere near those of the LGBT community?
I've never thought of you as a bigot, still don't, but as most people get on with their lives the pot of remaining holdouts is starting to boil down to a nasty bigot concentrate. Not a pot I would want to be in, regardless of the process used to heat it.
two articles with further thought
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...id=HP_politics
http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/01/co...gay-marriages/
Yet again you did not acknowledge that the legal issues have been handled correctly or that judge Shelby did what was supposed to be done...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Nobody said utah is the last state to allow gay marriage (but it is the one with a very weak argument for its constitutional amendment and that made it easy for lawyers to get it overturned).
I Said nothing about a Mormon majority causing the anti gay marriage.. Religion does not equal Mormon though as I understand it the Mormons think that all other religions are beneigth them based on the way you are arguing this.
No-one said that it was necessary to have a dedicated religious majority for the state to be filled with people who use religion to argue their anti gay adgenda..
This is not a big deal to debate.. there is nothing in your arguments... When the first gay person got married in Utah did your marriage suddenly fail? did your children suddenly sprout horns and become gay.. what is your issue with gay marriage that does not have a religious connotation?
This thread officially sucks.
Who said anything about my marriage failing if Gay Marriage becomes legal? I've said nothing of the sort. If that civics class you're raving about teaches how to blindly stereotype, we must have had different instructors.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOSS
Open your mind a little and quit assuming anybody who is on the other side of this political issue is a bigot fearing for his family's unity.
I'm merely debating your philosophy that Utah's religious majority is the main culprit, by pointing out all of the other states in direct contrast to Utah's demographic. Debunking this concept belongs on either side of the political debate, but understandably can lead to personal accusations and name calling when you get flustered. Religion has not been a part of this topic until you've brought it up.
Maybe it's time we have an adult conversation exploring all sides of the issue, even if we don't agree with them. Let's not accuse the other side of hate just because we disagree with their point of view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Because it has always been a widely held belief by Mormons (and I've heard this preached over the pulpit) that gay marriage threatens the sanctity of traditional marriage. There is this irrational mindset that marriage should only be an institution reserved for heterosexuals...like homosexuals are incapable of having emotions of love and affection. That somehow love amongst homosexuals isn't valid because it doesn't conform to the traditional definition set forth by society.
Remember Prop 8? The Mormon church threw thousands of dollars at that -- in an effort to "protect the sanctity of marriage" in California. Unbelievable....:roll:
Then go talk to those who have said it. Don't link me in with all this bullshit just because you guys can't find anybody else to talk to. :cool2:Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
Why does accadacca keep starting these threads? The conversation is always the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott P
Cuz Acca's trollin'
The civics class I am talking about would help you understand how our political system works and how to actually read and respond to direct questionsQuote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
The problem is that you are not arguing anything.. only putting out strawman arguments to change the direction.. how about giving some backing to why you think that it was not Judge Shelby's job to make a ruling? you have stated a number of times that it was a bad thing for him to do his job I would like to know why you think that he should not have actually made a ruling on a case brought to him?
You have also not debated my philosophy that Utah's religious majority is the main culprit to anything.. only pointed out that other states are full of people who fear homosexuality and use religion as an argument.
In the end answer only one question.. how without using your religion or God (since the laws of our land are supposed to be secular) with proofs does homosexual marriage cause you to fear for your familys unity. How can a man and a man getting married damage your family specifically?
When it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and looks like a duck.........Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOSS
And by the way, I HAVE confronted those types on several occasions and it always ends the same way. I ask them how gay marriage threatens traditional marriage, and I get a lot of stuttering and backpedaling, and then a lot about how tolerant they are, and how they love the person, not the "sin" blah blah blah. Uh huh, right. They'll claim that openly, and then turn around and out of the other side of their mouth whisper about how they can't understand how a man would choose another man's bum over a woman. And some don't even whisper <cough, cough, duck dynasty, cough cough>
Some folks have even gone so far as to say this nonsense: "Well if everyone was gay, then the human race would die out because then nobody would procreate." :roflol:Seriously?
It's tough defending discrimination. You have to really scrape the bottom of the barrel. My hat's off to whomever is defending the current discriminatory laws as they stand, because I can't see where they have a leg to stand on.
Here's the statement issued by the Attorney General.
Attachment 71450
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This is the confusion and emotional roller coaster I'm talking about. It's hard to deny that the procedure and rollout in the last month has caused uncertainty for a lot of people.
On one hand you have nut jobs going on a hunger strike, to massive debates amongst people who should be friends.
Just a little more order and planned out procedure, that would have helped everybody on either side of the political (not religious!) debate. We all know that this will eventually happen for the Gay community, but this was the wrong wrong wrong way to do it. You can talk about how some people were just doing their job and following law, but with discussion that those @1000 marriages might not be legit anymore??? What a mess.
Patience and proper procedure.
Beech, why don't you show what is the proper procedure for allowing a person to have equal rights.... Mind to post some legal backing showing the need to slowly give people their rights just so that other people might not feel poorly about it?
Did you know that Utah is not required to take this to the Supreme Court and could have just accepted the ruling and then allowed all of the people who were married to just be married and to have not been placed into this legal limbo? Yeah it didn't have to continue this way
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Sotomayor responsible for taking this to the Court that ultimately denied the overturn in the end?Quote:
Originally Posted by DOSS
Whatever it is, however you feel, and whatever you want to incorrectly label people that disagree with you politically, just admit there is a better way to get this law overturned. It was done poorly and now those 1000 couples who were so happy last week are now hearing the shattering news that they've got to fight that battle again. Calling people bigots won't make this fight any easier.
Actually Utah's attorney generals office filed to have this ruling stayed so no it wasn't Sotomayor who was responsible for continuing to argue this battle. Again this is how the court system works... Judges like Sotomayor rule on cases brought before them based on their informed interpretation of the laws of the land. Judges do not go out and create cases just to rule on them... that would be sillyQuote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
I just asked you to show me how there was a better way to get this law overturned. Why would I admit that there is a better way when I don't believe there is one.. I don't see a better way than to follow the legal structure that our nation has so I was hoping you would provide this better method that you continue to say exists that I just do not know about.
Please enlighten me with the "better way to get this law overturned" actually works?
You're not even making any legal suggestions about how this could have gone better, so if you think this process was the best way while everybody else thinks it turned into a clusterf&%k then let's agree to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOSS
No, lets not agree to disagree.. I don't think it needed to have gone any better.. I have no issues with how the legal system has worked here. and can you prove that "EVERYONE" else thinks that the legal system or the system created a clusterfork or that "EVERYONE" even thinks it is a clusterfork? I know of at least 1 other person who doesn't think so so I can PROVE that your assertions that EVERYONE thinks it is a clusterfork is inaccurate........ you are the one that has repeatedly stated that there is a better way.. PROVE IT..Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
agree to disagree
I'm certain that all LDS folks are now gonna refer back to this incident as a classic example of how fasting really works. Bwahahahaha!!! :roflol:
Nah, hardly any of them. But NONE of the people who thought he was an idiot can even crack a smile at how funny this coincidence was.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
I cracked one out...that dude is the spitting image of my brother-in-law. I had to do a double-take.