Does anybody know the status of the gentleman who fell on Saturday in Constrychnine?
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Does anybody know the status of the gentleman who fell on Saturday in Constrychnine?
I was in Hanksville late Saturday afternoon, and saw two emergency vehicles with lights scream down the road past Stan's. Not sure if it was related.Quote:
Originally Posted by USofCS
Bruce is back in SLCQuote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer
broken pelvis and broken ankle no cast
check you damn webbing after 20 people penjulum on it!!!!!
and do not do stunt rappels or jumping like a rubber band on it!!!!
I'd be more willing to take your emphatic advice if I had any idea what the circumstances were in this accident. Would anyone care to enlighten us?Quote:
Originally Posted by hesse15
I hope everything heals OK. And very glad he is back. I'm sure a very painful and tough experience, especially getting out?Quote:
Originally Posted by hesse15
Did the webbing, or knot in the webbing fail?
lukily was 2 groups behind mine!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer
but was an ordeal!
he sewer the webbing on rappels ,before him 20 people pejulum on the webbing back and forth and apparently he did not check the status of the rubbing spot before he jumped on it
result as soon he penjulum out of the crack in the final rap the webbing broke and landed 40ffet to ground!
evacuated in strecher at 10:30pm elicopter crazy pilot landed in bottom of the canyon and flew in the dark
Thanks for the updates/info Cristina. :2thumbs:
I'm going to lay off the judgments.
I was not on this trip, but a friend was. She sent me a note, saying she'd seen the frayed webbing and wondered if it was safe. She was in the first group. In her opinion, the faller's pack saved his life.
Here's a link to the meetup event: http://www.meetup.com/WesternSlopeAd...nts/106269922/
Here's a quote from that website:
However for the safety-conscience among you, after the pool arch incident, we now each individually look at the tails on the water knots and for any frays on the webbing, before we go over. We're also likely going to slow down a little and start adding contingency rigging and backup anchors where appropriate.Quote:
One of the anchors we specifically discussed is the one where the webbing was sawed through on Saturday afternoon resulting in Brucer's fall.
In my very very short experience (say 5 technical canyons), most of the time rappelling in a canyon is the time between clipping in and actually hanging on the rope. I don't think these safety ideas would slow us down much at all.
One more note: we've found and replaced bad webbing a couple of times, most recently in the right fork of Blarney. I went over a drop, and the webbing was frayed on the bottom. We've harvested 1/2" webbing and those tiny rapides from the right fork of Leprechaun, and very worn webbing as well.
I consider it our group's responsibility to leave all the webbing in excellent condition. I'd like to see all groups adopt this policy.
I'd like to hear from the more experienced.
the blarney you replaced i think is in the DC part of the canyon,Quote:
Originally Posted by blamkin86
so I will not clean that stuff and if I get newbies they usually rap of me also because will be a ugly low start for them.
you decide what is right for your group, i was on the second group in costrichnine inspected the webbing and saw some rubbing but still see all the ridges and stopped from sliding with my weight on and warned my 3 to do not play back and for with it but be careful and light rappeller!!
the groups that come after had the responsibility to check and inspect the stuff their life depend on, i was thinking everybody knew that .
in adobe swale a month ago i rapped 12 people out of me and I rap out of the most crappy webbing ever saw before!!!! took my risks but also i checked that were short drops (30-40 feet) with sandy bottom,and was ready for landing in case and I usually rap light and fast!!!!
never liked multiple newbies overweight and jumpy out of natural anchors, too lengthily to explain that is not Zion!!!!
do you need people to die to check webbing?Quote:
Originally Posted by blamkin86
by the way accidents list are :wrong biner block, wrong lenght of rope, wrong canyon, wrong season for the canyon, wrong evaluation of anchor, ipothermia disidratation,been tired, been slow, been out of shape and the most common:poor judgment.
all of those can in certain case will KILL you!!!!
not just a knot in a webbing
It is everyone's (or designated guide/leader - liable party) responsibility to check. Every time. Challenge things if you are unsure. If the group is unsure, you are in the wrong group.Quote:
Originally Posted by blamkin86
If you are setting up an anchor, and leaving it behind, you should do the very best job you can. However, the next group coming through has the responsibility to check, and fix/replace as needed before their use.
For example, I've heard people recommend digging up dead man anchors, every time. Some back them up with meat, and watch for movement. For me, I always follow the ERNEST principles for every anchor I use.
Our group was directly behind Bruce when he fell. We were just waiting for our turn to rappel then heard the fall and help. Attachment 65233. This is webbing from the deadman, it snapped right over the edge and at the quick link. The webbing was frayed and felt very soft compared to new webbing.
Glad he is going to be OK. There was a lot of wind Saturday, awesome rescue got in. Amazing job.
Thanks for the update.
Accident Report- Constrychnine April 13, 13
Two large meetup groups, Backpackers Anonymous out of SLC and Western Slope Adventurers from Grand Junction, planned a combined canyoneering trip to north wash, with the focus being on doing the canyons out at Poison Springs. The accident victim was Bruce Richardson, who was rapping 7th with a group of 8 people doing Constrychnine. As Bruce was on rappel at the last rap, the 90 footer into the dark chamber, the webbing holding him parted where it rubbed against the top of the rock, between the deadman anchor and the rap ring, about 12 inches from the ring, dropping him approximately 60 feet. Webbing, it should be noted, that was unnecessary and would not have been in play, had he been rapping off the piton and bolt that used to hang on the top of that wall. The elitist, self righteous, and still anonymous fool who took it upon himself to chop that bolt and remove the historical piton, lucked out, with the victim being a hammered and broken tough old bird, instead of the death that it very easily could have been. Another group in the canyon, from Colorado Springs, was hard on the heels of the accident group, and replaced the rigging, got the 8th man down, and sent a runner, Jeff Cooper, ahead to open ground with a Spot to call for help, as the patient, who was still conscious and could talk, was obviously badly injured and would need professional medical assistance and extraction. After sending the signal Jeff caught up with another group from the meetup party as they were having lunch on the ridge at the top of the climb out, who had just finished the same canyon 15 minutes ahead of the accident group, As a member of that group, and unfortunately well versed with the mechanics and personnel involved in a rescue in that area (from being a witness to one last year), I accepted the responsibility to get the word out from that point, and hustled for the car. We did not get service until we were 1 mile out of Hanksville, and pulled on in to the Chevron station as we concluded the 911 call, which among other things, confirmed that both Spot signals that were triggered were received. Duke and Jessica, the couple who own the Chevron and Stans, are both EMTs, and were among the very first responders to last years Boss Hawg accident, being the first to reach and treat that patient, so I knew they would be involved again, and that would be a good place to start. Duke had already gotten a call advising of an distress call, and the local SAR network had been alerted and was gathering, so I was able to provide them with the details, area map (thanks, Shane), and even a GPS coordinate that we had on a new GPS enabled camera, where we had taken pictures at the rappel/accident site. As the call went out through the local network for the local SAR personnel to gather, and it must be said that the Tropic Fire Dept was again well represented- from 3 hours away. A call also went out to Classic, in Page Az, for a chopper. As the Garfield Co Sheriff on scene debated between sending medical help in from the top of the canyon, or down the exit and then up from the bottom, word came that the chopper had set down in the canyon, and had already gotten their medical team, a medic and a flight nurse, in to the patient from the bottom of the canyon. It made one flight up to the trailhead- now command center, and picked up Duke and 2 other rescuers, and took them down to the site. The helicopter took off just before dark, and headed north, surprising the rescue team up top with the apparent speed of the evacuation, but as it turned out, the pilot decided he needed additional fuel, and flew over to the Hanksville airport to refuel. After several hours, and darkness fallen, with no word at all from the rescuers, the sheriff sent a radio team in on the exit route to try and establish communications with either the chopper or the rescue team, which they were able to do, from the lunch spot on the rim, without going down into the canyon. Standing on top of the ridge in the pitch black, with winds gusting 20-30 mph, it was astonishing to see the pilot, in returning, not touch down where we expected, at the broad Poison Springs/Slidenide confluence, rather shocking everyone by flying right up Slidenide Canyon, and touching down just below the Constrychnine junction. It was an incredible display of nerve and skill. Which served the rescuers well, as they were lacking in bodies to effectuate the carry out, and the other 7 in the canyoneering group were detained and conscripted to help in getting the litter and patient out the remaining canyon and to the chopper, which despite the relatively short distance, and the lack of any significant rappels, other than the 20 foot slide to the pool, still proved to be a difficult and time consuming job. The chopper took Bruce to the Grand Junction hospital, departing around 11 pm, and the rescuers and remaining canyoneers hiked out to the trailhead. Once again, the locals, scattered as they may be, rallied and turned out in force, to pull off another rescue, one cannot thank them enough for their efforts, especially as unpaid volunteers.
Bruces cohorts picked him up from the hospital Sunday afternoon and brought him home to Salt Lake, where I visited him at his home today. He is obviously in considerable pain, having suffered a broken ankle and pelvis; the shoulder injury mentioned by the EMTs turned out to apparently be a deep contusion, but nothing else was broken, except maybe the helmet, which took a good whack at impact, according to the members of his group. So beyond that and some serious road rash he is in pretty good shape, and fully cognizant that he is lucky to be alive. He did say that he wanted to thank everyone, both the local SAR team and canyoneers who were involved in his rescue.
rick thompson
Thanks for the detailed report Rick.
Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
Thank you Rick. I'm in awe at the quick, selfless, and organized rescue you described.
I wish Bruce a quick and full recovery.
Thanks for the details Rick! Bruce was very fortunate! Good luck in your recovery!
Excellent report, Rick, & very thorough. Thanks for taking the time to do this. It benefits all.
Wow, excellent report and i see even the failed webbing was posted! Now all we need is a video and this could be the most detailed accident TR ever.
Great report Rick. Thanks.
(maybe a paragraph or two and some spacing would make it a tad more readable for some of us)
Wow. Scary stuff.
Dissapointing to read about another avoidable mistake in a canyon. Seems like it should be obvious but how about checking EVERY ANCHOR, EVERY PIECE OF WEBBING, EVERY TIME. Best wishes and speedy recovery to Bruce.
I can see where this one would catch a lot of folks out, including myself.... a dozen canyoneers in front of you just rappeled from the anchor. There is a cue building behind you to rappel from the anchor. Easy to just clip and go with only a simple visual curtesy check.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor
YMMV :popcorn:
Let he who has never made an avoidable mistake in a canyon cast the first rope bag...
We did the canyon on March 30th. We moved the webbing back a bit from the edge and used a meat anchor backup. The rappel is at 1:11 into this video from a couple weeks ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66SQ32jxOr8
Today at school we tested the remaining piece of webbing to see how much it could hold. As you can see it held only 2000 lbs of force being pulled, I can imagine even less with rubbing against the side of the cliff.
Attachment 65245
Brand new webbing is speced at 4000lbs. The way I read it elsewhere is that the webbing rubbed along the edge multiple times with multiple groups going over. At some point it was lengthened to lower the load on the anchor, which ended up being the ultimate demise of the webbing.
AMEN!!Quote:
Originally Posted by canyoncaver
[QUOTE=Iceaxe;532443]I can see where this one would catch a lot of folks out, including myself.... a dozen canyoneers in front of you just rappeled from the anchor. There is a cue building behind you to rappel from the anchor. Easy to just clip and go with only a simple visual curtesy check.
That, I would think, is exactly what happened. People waiting - more coming, so clip & go. Only/best solution? Train each member of your party that each one is responsible for self and for inspecting anchor before going. Another thing I have tried to do with our groups is at each anchor/rappel station, have one person appointed whose specific task is to monitor the anchor while everyone else descends. Seems like the larger the group though, the more distractions from various conversations going on, etc. and the less attention that is paid to what most deserves attention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peakbaggers
mistake was people forgot they were in a canyon and not in Zion/Disneyland!!!!
2 weeks before I told Bruce straight in his face that if he did not change how was doing canyons he will got killed!!!
Glad he just got some broken bones!!!!
( sandtraps and fiddlestick are WAY more safe than what I witnessed 2 weekends before it)
My sincere wishes to Bruce for a full and speedy recovery.
A note on backups: On my trips we back every anchor up with a "meat anchor"
until the last person goes. This technique is critical for certain anchoring
techniques (think sandtrap), but we do this as a habit, even for very solid
anchors. We would certainly do this for a found deadman. The last man (usually
a small person) has more risk, but they do have a well tested anchor.
I do not agree at all with the attempt to point fingers at the remover of the
piton / bolt. As much as I sympathize with Bruce and the entire group for the
difficult experience they had to go through, the group was responsible for
ensuring that each anchor was sufficient for each member of the group. That is
the nature of canyoneering. Prior knowledge of a canyon and existing anchors
help make canyons more accessible, but canyons are ever changing and anchors are
in a state of decay from the moment they are built. Each group needs to take
full responsibility for negotiating them safely.
be careful out there!
The way I interpret this: "No need to check anchors in Zion!"Quote:
Originally Posted by hesse15
Hope I don't have to "Meet" you in a canyon in Zion ;-)
no I hope to meet you again around campfire not in a canyon because you need to carry my sorry ass out !!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo_Beck
my comment that you misinterpret was that : most of the people that do ONLY Zions canyons are used to sturdy bolts so they never bother about been careful rappeller or inspecting anchors!!!!!
Bruce did mostly Zions, and we had a lengthy discussion 2 weeks before that natural anchor are more delicate!!!!
he already had a previous call with an anchor with one of his people flying free down to the ground!!!!
at least in Zion with the permit system there is a limit for the number of people, but in the rest of the colorado plateau is becoming a total craziness!!!!
I think people put way too much faith in these bolts that are placed in sandstone. I can't tell you how many times we have had the bolts fail when installed into concrete footings. And these are placed in sandstone. Be prudent with anchor choices.
Yikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2065toyota
When i first started canyoneering i was blown away that people used natual anchors and i felt so much more safe with bolts. But now after some experience on natural anchors, i would trust a tree and alot of other natural anchors over any bolt. Except that little bush at the end of das boot, that bush creeps me out lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2065toyota
Attachment 65298
The rest of the webbing from the accident. This piece was turned over to the Sheriff's Department. They requested it after we showed it to them after we hiked out of the canyon that night.
FWIW: There is a bowling ball chokestone in the watercourse that we use. Makes the route more fun as you have to swim out around a blind corner to complete the canyon. Taking my family through Das Boot last year I looked at that bush and thought "not a chance in hell I'm risking my family on that anchor".Quote:
Originally Posted by Aj84737
YMMV :popcorn:
We saw that other way too but I think we were worried about how much rope was in contact with the rock on the pull or something. Or maybe we saw an anchor above that slot and didn't notice that chokestone. Hell idk that's been too many canyons ago. But we decided the bush would be alright. Light and quick rap that's for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe