FiddleStick finally available

Two years in the making, by a cast of thousands - The FiddleStick is now available as an Imlay Canyon Gear product.

The FiddleStick is an advanced canyoneering anchor tool. It is a new approach to retrievable anchoring, opening up a wider range of possible anchors, and making it possible to descend more canyons while leaving nothing behind (aka “ghosting”). As an ADVANCED anchor tool, it requires skill, practice and understanding to use safely. Even when used properly, it has the possibility of failing, resulting in severe injury or death, or being stranded in a canyon with your ropes hopelessly stuck.

http://www.canyoncollective.com/atta...le00-jpg.1456/

The FiddleStick retrievable anchor system has some great benefits:

- Rope grooves are virtually eliminated.
- Anchors can be well back from the edge of the rappel.
- Anchors can be around corners.
- Uses little to no webbing.
- Can easily and safely “ghost” in many circumstances.
- Faster to rig than most any other anchor.
- Lightweight.
- Fun!

The “FiddleStick” is both a product and a concept. It is certainly possible to make very reasonable FiddleSticks at home, but it is somewhat difficult to improvise them in the field from commonly carried materials.
While it is possible to use the FiddleStick on traderoute canyons, to not contribute to deeper rope grooves or make some pulls easier, it really shines on first descents and in rarely-traveled backcountry canyons where it is of substantial benefit to not leave junk behind.

Using the FiddleStick
The FiddleStick is based on the Stone knot. The Stone (Stein) knot can be used to secure both sides of a doubled rope so both can be rappelled on. The concept is the same when FiddleSticking, but one end of the rope is just a short tail, while the other (long) end is used to rappel on. A pull cord removes the FiddleStick, and the Stone knot falls apart, leaving a short, clean end of the rope to be pulled out from around the anchor, and down the drop.

There are several versions of the Stone Knot, but the one we recommend for the FiddleStick is the Upward Overhand Stone, which has the most consistent disintegration once the Stick is pulled. Learn more about tying and uses of the Stone knot at: CUSA Tech Tip: The Stone Knot

By replacing the carabiner in the Stone knot with a stick and leaving one strand short, you create a very slick retrievable anchor. Upon removing the stick, the knot falls apart, and only the short end of the rope needs to pull from around the anchor.

More Information available at CUSA Tech Tip: The FiddleStick

Available for sale at the CUSA Store and at better Canyoneering Retailers everywhere.

Interesting... I have mixed feelings about this one.

I will probably get to field test your new product in the next few days (or at least witness a field test, should I deem the test crazy). I'll write an objective review when I get back.

Attachment 64080

I am happy with how they turned out. I don't feel there is any risk of it "falling" out. It can be pulled or pushed out however. The attached pic is a situation where the the only anchor placement was in the drainage. To tie the knot farther down would have put it over the lip which makes it harder to start. I was very careful to rap to the side and twist the rope so the stick was laid flat against the rock rather than being pushed out. I see this as being something that could be easily overlooked as setting it up if very easy. As with anything, practice and pay attention to the details

I've used my home made fiddlestick many times on a variety of rappels. You do have to be careful about how it lays against things around it and keep an eye on it, but overall I've really liked it. It's worked awesome every time I've used it.

I copied this from the CC, since I think it is very important for every potential fiddlesticker to know. Big props to Tom for sharing this information! :2thumbs:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

On our first rappel on Sunday, we had an odd thing happen. A 40' rappel off an arch, from an exposed stance, with Ram going last, using a brand new Imlay 8mm rope for the rap, and a 6mm pull cord for the pull. Ram pulled the carabiner out and re-cinched the knot. When he lifted the rope up to rig his rappel device, the FiddleStick fell out and went to the ground.

If the setup had been a little different, the rappelling rope could have also fallen out, which could have had dire consequences. We had previously used the FiddleStick exclusively with well-used ropes (I think).

BE VERY CAREFUL when the rope is brand new and slippery. Cinch the Stone Knot down tightly on the FiddleStick, and see how sticky it is. Make sure it is sticky enough that it will not fall out.

It also calls for CARE while Rappelling - keep tension on the rope until you are at the bottom, and/or, if you unweight the rope between segments of a rappel, be sure to TEST the anchor again before you put your weight on it again.

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______________________________

There is also one other major problem that I've thought of regarding the fiddlestick:

When rappelling from the fiddlestick, there is the potential to release the knot by stepping on, or snagging the fiddlestick pullcord.

This issue can be resolved by pulling up a few lengths of pullcord and piling it beside the anchor, creating a few feet of buffer should you hit/snag/step on the pullcord.

I'm not bagging on the product, or on Tom, it's just a concern that I thought of when using a SandTrap this past weekend. :hmm2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slot Machine

I'm not bagging on the product...

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I will. I think its a foolish product to promote and a foolish technique to use. It'll hurt or kill someone soon enough.

Its one of those techniques that should be mentioned around the fire by folks in casual conversation with regard to techniques used but not promoted, or, thought of as "safe" for most people.

Any technique that requires LAMAR every time its used, if used often, will eventually play out badly.

Just like releasable hitches. Macrame knot. Etc. These kill even experienced people.

Even when used properly, it has the possibility of failing, resulting in severe injury or death, or being stranded in a canyon with your ropes hopelessly stuck.

Wow, that's quite the sales pitch.

Rig the FiddleStick in plain sight. While this is not a requirement, it is nice if the FiddleStick can be seen while getting on rappel, and even better if it can be seen from the bottom of the drop. This allows you to keep an eye on it at all times.

If I can't trust and anchor or my rigging enough to take my eye of it...then...I don't trust it.


The FiddleStick could get stuck on something. You checked really carefully ahead of time, right? If it sticks after coming out of the knot DON’T PULL IT YET.- If the FiddleStick doesn’t come out you are “jacked up” or “buggered” (technical terms).

They why use it? Less is more. Dedicated piece of gear that could get stuck. Not optimal.


If not, add some security to the pull cord side by:- Snagging the pull cord on a bush or stick, that can then be easily broken by a pull from below;
- Back from the edge, stack a rock or two atop the pull cord, to hold it until pulled from below. Be sure the stack is far enough back that the rock will not be knocked over the edge;

Oh, goodness no. So, get the pull cord stuck ahead of time? Yeah, that's a good idear. Or, how 'bout a stack of rocks that could spill over and clock you whilst on rappel?

Canyoneering...taking something simple and safe like rappelling and making it as dangerous as possible...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brian in SLC

It'll hurt or kill someone soon enough...

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I've taken the time to consider this from every angle, and I tend to agree.

Jenny West showed us both the SandTrap and the Fiddlestick this past weekend. I kept an open mind about both products during my lessons. Even though they are both new and novel anchors, they are VERY different. The saftey margain between the two products is HUGE. (I only bring up the SandTrap because I think that many people lump 'novel' anchoring systems into the same category. However, there are big differences between each product in the 'novel' category.)

So, here is my conclusion:

I don't think I would ever use a Fiddlestick, and I wouldn't want anyone in my group to use one either. If the stick can move, or the stone knot can come loose once you are set up and ready to rap, then what good is it? It's a choice between compromising safety or leaving a groove.

In comparison, The SandTrap is a predicatable and reliable product. With proper instruction it is just as safe as your average carin/deadman anchor. Once a few members of your team have tested it, the SandTrap 'settles in' and doesn't move. The Sandtrap doesn't leak sand (like a water anchor might leak water) and is surprisingly stable. I could make Deathcricket a believer, trust me. :cool2: :haha:

Anyway, that is my objective opinion. I admire the spirit of innovation, but don't admire the reliability of the Fiddlestick.

Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brian in SLC

I think its a foolish product to promote and a foolish technique to use. It'll hurt or kill someone soon enough.

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^^^THIS^^^

This FiddleStick technique is nothing but a giant gamble every time you use it. And the major problem with that is you only have one big chip to bet on every toss of the dice, sooner or later this is going to come up snake eyes for someone.

I'm betting it will be some poor noob trying to copy the A-team and at the current rate of promotion I'm putting the over/under at 2 years.

:popcorn:

Tom,
Umm, why isn't there a hole in each end of the fiddlestick so you can secure it with a canyon quickdraw and prevent it from ever slipping out of the stone knot? last man down has to remove the quickdraw, but at least they got to watch how the fiddlestick interacts with the rocks/environment while someone is rapping.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slot Machine

I could make Deathcricket a believer, trust me. :cool2: :haha:

Anyway, that is my objective opinion. I admire the spirit of innovation, but don't admire the reliability of the Fiddlestick.

Bob

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Ha! I dunno maybe if I saw it in action. I'm pretty easily convinced to do risky stuff. :haha:

I have also been on a couple trips with Kody (2065Toyota) and that dude is legit and very competent (and his crew). So I would probably even rap on a fiddlestick if he told me he felt it was safe and busted it out on a trip. But I still gotta admit that water trap and fiddle stick scare the F-ing crap outta me. Risking my life over a $10 bolt just doesn't seem like fun. I was just reading that bummer thread about a guy dieing off a webbing mishap and that is rock solid tech. Yet someone still died. There is just too many variables in this equation IMO, when your life is on the line.

There is no doubt, somebody will eventually get hurt using a fiddlestick and there will be a huge discussion on how unsafe they are and why they shouldn't be used. And all will be legit arguments. That being said, fiddlesticks are mainly used off of trees and large boulders. Both of these items are stronger anchors than a bolt placed into some sandstone. If you disagree, place a bolt in some sandstone and hook your vehicle to it and see how easily it pulls out. Now hook you car to tree trunk and see if it comes out. Good luck. People have been injured and killed by using webbing. There isn't a huge discussion that it should be banned, only used and tied properly. People have been injured and killed from biner blocks by rapping off the wrong rope. Same conclusion, use it properly. The fiddlestick is just another arsenal that if used properly serves it's purpose and is safe. If you don't feel comfortable using it, then don't. The setup is faster than a biner block because there is no feeding through the anchor, and the clean up is faster than a biner block because you are only unbagging the exact amount of rope used for the rap and pull. Sorry Jake, my wife wont allow me to go with the Z crew anymore once she found out how dangerous you are. :lol8:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

^^^THIS^^^
I'm betting it will be some poor noob trying to copy the A-team and at the current rate of promotion I'm putting the over/under at 2 years.

:popcorn:

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you totally got the point, so many out there now day that do 2 canyons and thinking they are PRO!!!!

but at the same time there is the DISCLAIMER., you just need to read it and use your brain.

to be out there and never had an accident I think you need to have the right mind!

we never been a single time any close to having problems, HE will never wanted to risk to deal with MY MOTHER if something was going to happens to me in a canyon!!!!!:nono:

but I was fortunate do do canyons with ONE OF THE BEST canyoneer out there!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2065toyota

Sorry Jake, my wife wont allow me to go with the Z crew anymore once she found out how dangerous you are. :lol8:

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And to think, she let me belay her and the kids before she knew. :haha:

I don't think the issue is how strong the system locks in, or how tough/strong the anchors are, I think the issue is how easily it falls out and unlocks with zero warning. I can see a pull cord prematurely pulling it, a slight twist against the rock pushing it out, or someone stepping on a temp ledge and unweighting it (then it just falls out), and who knows what else. I can even see a wrongful death lawsuit to a manufacturer who knowingly produced such a faulty device as possible. I guess we can bump the thread when the 1st accident happens and discuss it further? *shrug*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hesse15

you totally got the point, so many out there now day that do 2 canyons and thinking they are PRO!!!!

but at the same time there is the DISCLAIMER., you just need to read it and use your brain.

to be out there and never had an accident I think you need to have the right mind!

we never been a single time any close to having problems, HE will never wanted to risk to deal with MY MOTHER if something was going to happens to me in a canyon!!!!!:nono:

but I was fortunate do do canyons with ONE OF THE BEST canyoneer out there!!!!

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100% agree! :2thumbs:

I don't use it very often, but I have one made out of 1/2" dowel rod that I coated in varnish. Even with the weight of rope on a 150' rappel it still required a decent tug to free the fiddlestick. They're not for every drop and must be used with caution, double and tripple checking before sending the last man down, but I never felt unsafe while using it. I usually have some one drag the pull rope off to the side too so I don't accidentally snag it and pull it loose when going down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mzamp

Tom,
Umm, why isn't there a hole in each end of the fiddlestick so you can secure it with a canyon quickdraw and prevent it from ever slipping out of the stone knot? last man down has to remove the quickdraw, but at least they got to watch how the fiddlestick interacts with the rocks/environment while someone is rapping.

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A good idea, now under consideration.

Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TommyBoy

I don't use it very often, but I have one made out of 1/2" dowel rod that I coated in varnish. Even with the weight of rope on a 150' rappel it still required a decent tug to free the fiddlestick. They're not for every drop and must be used with caution, double and tripple checking before sending the last man down, but I never felt unsafe while using it. I usually have some one drag the pull rope off to the side too so I don't accidentally snag it and pull it loose when going down.

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Toyota and TommyBoy - perhaps you did not notice, but this thread is for people who have never used the FiddleStick to pontificate on how dangerous the whole thing is.

Perhaps there should be a separate thread for people who have actually used it.

Tom :moses:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

Toyota and TommyBoy - perhaps you did not notice, but this thread is for people who have never used the FiddleStick to pontificate on how dangerous the whole thing is.

Perhaps there should be a separate thread for people who have actually used it.

Tom :moses:

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x2 - and in the next year we'll start a 3rd thread to discuss accidents and deaths caused by it. :2thumbs:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

A good idea, now under consideration.

Tom

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Why bother?

I've been told (by friendly experts that love the Fiddlestick) that normally everyone raps from a meat anchor, except for the last person, who gets the rare and awesome opportunity to be a stuntman. :haha:





Disclaimer: I don't know nothin' about nothin'. I don't research nothin'. I don't practice nothin'. I don't know anyone that knows nothin'. Jus' forget anythin' I said on this thread. Trying to learn anythin' from it will only make you more dummer. I'm kinda embarrassed that I got caught pontificating in front of y'all.

Dupid. Dupid. Me so dupid.

:lol8::haha::lol8::mrgreen::haha::mrgreen::lol8:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

Toyota and TommyBoy - perhaps you did not notice, but this thread is for people who have never used the FiddleStick to pontificate on how dangerous the whole thing is.

Perhaps there should be a separate thread for people who have actually used it.

Tom :moses:

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come on Tom pontificate on others is what is going on for decades :cool2::bootyshake::bootyshake:
i think you need to start growing some beard and mustache ,I think will look nice on you!!!:naughty:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slot Machine

Why bother?

I've been told (by friendly experts that love the Fiddlestick) that normally everyone raps from a meat anchor, except for the last person, who gets the rare and awesome opportunity to be a stuntman.

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Rarely. Not really how it is done. Sometimes with a big crowd, if the FiddleStick anchor takes a while to set up, people are meat-anchored down, but usually everyone raps off the same anchor.

Tom

probably what he means is that until the last men down you keep an eye on the fiddle and just in case you backed up the fiddle so does not release if accidentally somebody pull the little release cord!!
but i could be wrong!!!! (NOOOOOOO!!!!)
:roll:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

Rarely. but usually everyone raps off the same anchor.

Tom

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

Toyota and TommyBoy - perhaps you did not notice, but this thread is for people who have never used the FiddleStick to pontificate on how dangerous the whole thing is.

Perhaps there should be a separate thread for people who have actually used it.

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Attachment 64438

I don't need to get hurt or killed first to comment on it, now, do I?

Yeah, I own one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

Toyota and TommyBoy - perhaps you did not notice, but this thread is for people who have never used the FiddleStick to pontificate on how dangerous the whole thing is.

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I played around extensively with the system. And unless your design or material is magically and vastly superior to the dozens of different combinations I've seen used I'll stick with my original assessment that the general concept is flawed and dangerous.

The knowledge of the fiddlestix and how it works is one of those things that is nice to know, but not something I'd consider using except in an emergency.

But what the hell do I know, I just keep remembeing back to when macreme knots were all the rage.

YMMV


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mzamp

Tom,
Umm, why isn't there a hole in each end of the fiddlestick so you can secure it with a canyon quickdraw and prevent it from ever slipping out of the stone knot? last man down has to remove the quickdraw, but at least they got to watch how the fiddlestick interacts with the rocks/environment while someone is rapping.

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Good idea. Looks easy enough to drill your own hole on the other side to fit an Attache.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brian in SLC

Yeah, I own one.

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Not to worry Beady, your 'gear ho' cred is still good 'round here :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hank moon

Not to worry Beady, your 'gear ho' cred is still good 'round here :)

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Whew! 'Preciate ya!

Can't help but think there has to be a better mouse trap...

Messing around, here's a couple of whacky options (kids, don't try this at home or in the field!):

You know how a lot of belay/rappel devices have a guide mode? Its a sort of progress capture. Here's the Kong Ghost:

Attachment 64459

Yank on the pull cord...defeats the progress capture:

Attachment 64460

Then there's a clove hitch on a Verm Hook:

Attachment 64461

Yank on pull cord, and, it tips the Verm hook so the clove hitch slides off:

Attachment 64462

None of the risk of using the "releasable" systems is worth your life, or, the two bucks worth of webbing you'd have to leave.

I'm all for innovation and "ghosting", but...there's a diminishing return with the equipment and/or techniques used are themselves inherently dangerous...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

Toyota and TommyBoy - perhaps you did not notice, but this thread is for people who have never used the FiddleStick to pontificate on how dangerous the whole thing is.

Perhaps there should be a separate thread for people who have actually used it.

Tom :moses:

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Seriously??? The original post comes across as a sales pitch. Maybe it's the title that threw me off, or the multiple paragraphs touting the benefits, or the bold print advertising it for sale, or the copy/paste from the product page. Ok, whatever. Perhaps I'm just bothered that you suggest these guys start their own post [so as not to detract from the sales pitch perhaps?]

If the true purpose of the thread is for non-users to pontificate the dangers, what better way than to draw from the experience of others. Some valid concerns have been raised such as what happens if the rappeller steps on a ledge and unweights the rope -- didn't see that one on the product page. These are the types of concerns that need to be published so the user can become familiar with the hazards. Heck, these questions are really a favor for Imlay that would be important to include in a product manual if it has one.

My pontification: personal preference is for a DIY release system because I'd at least test it several times in low-risk situations prior to actual use. Then I'd be somewhat familiar with the limitations. Any peice of DIY equipment automatically gets more respect. As soon as a ICG sticker is slapped on it and I can throw it in the "cart" people assume it's been developed to be safe for the "average user" who of course feels they have "advanced capabilities". I think it'll result in a senseless loss of life and then any profit will be gone in a puff of smoke. Better to advertise bolts and drills.

Other pontifications/questions/concerns I have:

• Climbing equipment made of plastic is unheard of when the consequence of a single-point failure is death
• Has accelerated environmental testing has been performed on the finished product, the product page states it has been in development for two years only, what is the disposal life for the rated load when exposed to a canyoneering environment
• How is one to inspect for cracks; visual or other NDI techniques; plastics can have hairline fractures which are invisible to the naked eye
• The fiddle stick folds and breaks in the stone knot at about 1200 lbs; I assume this is for a pristine specimen; what load does the fiddlestick fail at with the largest visually-undetectable (missed) crack in the knot
• What is the temperature range for the rated load

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slot Machine

Why bother?

I've been told (by friendly experts that love the Fiddlestick) that normally everyone raps from a meat anchor, except for the last person, who gets the rare and awesome opportunity to be a stuntman. :haha:

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Bob,
With my tongue deeply embedded in my cheek, my "demonstration" of the Fiddlestick you refer to was truly a playful jest aimed at our sceptical friend, Scott. Recall that I rigged it in a tiny breakable arch and added every joking gesture that I could toss in. I would love to show it in a serious anchor situation to offer you a true test to judge. Indeed I am a lover of the Fiddlestick. I am often the last person down the rappel as I have confidence in my method of setting it up to ensure my safe passage and I offer a lighter weight load on the systems. Honestly, I love my life and I really hate to be afraid. I do not feel that I'm being a stunt(wo)man at all. That "rare and awesome opportunity" has come my way in the test stages; off my deck, in Tom's workroom, in numerous tests and in the many variations that have led to the latest versions of Aguanchor, Sandtrap and Fiddlestick. To further clarify your comment, my friend, more often the Fiddlestick is backed up by various methods (which have been shown/explained in other threads) rather than setting up a meat anchor for all but the last person.
BTW, after a week of careful evaluation, Scott lost his scepticism and converted to the sense and safety in these anchor systems.

It was wonderful romping through a few canyons with you and yours.
Jenny

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exergy

Other pontifications/questions/concerns I have:

• Climbing equipment made of plastic is unheard of when the consequence of a single-point failure is death

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Well, I'll start by pointing out that all climbing ropes fall into this category...

:haha:

But I digress...

I would like to see testing to address some of your other concerns as well. My understanding is that at least some of that is underway.

:popcorn:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JennyMae

I would love to show it in a serious anchor situation to offer you a true test to judge. Indeed I am a lover of the Fiddlestick.

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I would like this too since we are still open to learning more. From what I've observed, it seems like a very dangerous tool. It seems that at any given rappel there will always be a safer anchoring option. Maybe not a cleaner option, but safer. From what I can tell, the failure rate on the Fiddlestick MUST be higher than other anchoring methods. If it can just fall out, like it did with Ram, then I will never ever use it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JennyMae

I do not feel that I'm being a stunt(wo)man at all.

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My use of the word 'stuntman', is of course, a joke. If Tom gets to overstate things (pontificating), then I do too. :mrgreen: I'm simply playing a little with Tom.
:duel:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JennyMae

Scott lost his skepticism and converted to the sense and safety in these anchor systems.

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No two anchors carry equal amounts of risk, so lumping them all together as 'safe' misrepresents each individual product. The margin for error on the SandTrap is wide (i.e. you can load a lot of sand, or a moderate amount of sand, and it will still work.) I know very little about the WaterTrap; but think it has the potential to be a good anchor, and that it will also have a large margin for error.

Back to my original point, the margin for error on the Fiddlestick is zero (i.e. either it works, or it doesn't). I don't worry about you Jenny, because you are very highly skilled. However, when we are talking about my clumsy ass, then I can easily see myself getting killed with such a tool, because I am clumsy, because I'm not a light rappeller, and because I don't watch the anchor once I commit to a rappel. Do I represent the average person that would buy a Fiddlestick? Perhaps.

For you and Tom to use it is one thing, for it to be sold as a commercial product is a whole 'nother issue. I think @Exergy made several very good points concerning the standard for commercial sale.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JennyMae

It was wonderful romping through a few canyons with you and yours.

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^^ This we totally agree on! ^^ We can't wait for our next chance to get together. You are a wonderful teacher, but you and Steph need to work on your pothole escape techniques. :lol8:

Quote:

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"For you and Tom to use it is one thing, for it to be sold as a commercial product is a whole 'nother issue. I think @Exergy made several very good points concerning the standard for commercial sale."

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Could this not be the case for every piece of equipment used. Heck, even a figure 8 wont save you life if you let go of the rope

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2065toyota

Could this not be the case for every piece of equipment used. Heck, even a figure 8 wont save you life if you let go of the rope

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Not even a reasonable comparison. You got "user error" versus "inherently dangerous".

Ever seen ANY piece of climbing and/or rappelling and/or canyoneering equipment commercially sold with the following in its product literature?:

Even when used properly, it has the possibility of failing, resulting in severe injury or death, or being stranded in a canyon with your ropes hopelessly stuck.

I wonder how many retailers will carry it? The smart ones won't touch it.

Just thought I'd weigh in here (again). My friends and I have tested the issue of pulling the fiddlestick out of the knot while the rope is weighted. We found that with weight on the rope, it was almost impossible to pull the fiddlestick out (mine is made of of 1/2 inch PVC). That was one of the first things we tested in my garage. Of course, we keep an eye on it, but I'll do that with a deadman as well. I haven't found it to be inherently dangerous or anything.

Warning Labels

Manufacturers of consumer products have to be liberal with the warning labels these days, lest they get sued. But for these, it's hard to know whether the company is being outright stupid or if they're simply targeting the most brain dead dumb among us.

"Shin pads cannot protect any part of the body they do not cover." -- On a pair of shin guards made for bicyclists.
"Do not use while sleeping." -- On a hair dryer.
"Do not use while sleeping or unconscious." -- On a hand-held massaging device.
"Do not place this product into any electronic equipment." -- On the case of a chocolate CD in a gift basket.
"Caution: Shoots rubber bands." -- On a product called "Rubber Band Shooter."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ilipichicuma

Of course, we keep an eye on it, but I'll do that with a deadman as well.

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Gallows humor...sorry...I got a chuckle out of that.

Be careful out there kids...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exergy

Seriously???

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I thought it might be of interest to the readers of this thread that the loudest critics were people that have not used nor tried to use this device in the field.

That's all.

Tom :moses:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

I thought it might be of interest to the readers of this thread that the loudest critics were people that have not used nor tried to use this device in the field.

That's all.

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Just curious..... how do you know what the critics have or have not tried in the field? Or are you just guessing and grandstanding?


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...l=1#post530851

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

Making a really great video of swinging the arch has had consequences. One of those consequences is that people less prepared and less savvy will do the same thing, but do it poorly, resulting in damage to the arch, and to themselves.

Just as I have responsibility for the rope grooves and trails on the sandpile in Spry Canyon, because I am the original publicist for that specific canyon.

Tom

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You know.... If you take this quote from the Corona Arch thread and apply it to this thread.... Some interesting conclusions can be derived using simple extrapolation. This thread can then be concluded I think, and bumped again when the 1st accident occurs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deathcricket

You know.... If you take this quote from the Corona Arch thread and apply it to this thread.... Some interesting conclusions can be derived using simple extrapolation. This thread can then be concluded I think, and bumped again when the 1st accident occurs.

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I see your point a little Jake, but no matter how the story plays out which is almost always the case, it will be user error that caused it. No different than trying to blame and 'Assault Rifle' for shooting somebody. Hopefully nothing ever comes of your predictions because as we know there has already been too many. Let's all try to do a better job of double checking anchors and making sure everybody sets their devices up correctly.