Zion Park - First Time Impressions

Last week was my first time doing canyons in Zions. We had planned this trip for several months, as it was the only opportunity that my wife could get away from school and work. It exceeded our expectations. 7 days, and 7 canyons. We could have pushed in more, but the long days started to catch up to us...:stud:Rather than a bunch of individual trip reports, I wanted to send out some quick observations.


Overall
Lots of people. Very cool to see crowds wearing 5.10 canyoneer shoes and the neoprene 5mm socks. We were part of "the group"! :cool2: However, I was sad to see how commercialized everything was. I later discovered that most of it was for the Narrows or Subway. Glad people are enjoying it, but the solitude and unique challenges canyoneering presents itself are the biggest parts of the experience. IMO. Continually running into people is a little disheartening. Glad that the North Wash, Roost, Cedar Mesa are still remote to most.

We always got up by 5 am, and caught the first 6 am shuttle. Cool on the approach, and the return avoided the monsoons. We packed ~1 gal of water each, and always returned with plenty. It killed our backs, thus we challenged how much to bring each day. However, we didn't want to risk not having enough water. And at the end of each day, we were back at the backcountry desk getting the next permit.

Everything is well bolted and established. We got this overwhelming feeling of going down "the yellow brick" road each day. Granted, per Tom's advice we started with the easier canyons to get the lay of the land.

Lots of rope grooves in the rocks, and it appears that a lot of it is due to inexperience. I realize some of it can't be avoided. During the week, we only ran into 3 groups in the back country. One at Keyhole (which the group let us pass), one at Mystery, and one at Spry. We stayed right with the Mystery and Spry groups all the way through. The Mystery group was obviously experienced and knew what they were doing. The Spry group had us a little worried. Pulling a 10mm climbing rope (> 200') after each short drop tore up the sandstone with vigor. Snarls in the rope and strange methods were pervasive, so I tried to help and make suggestions without being obnoxious. Hey, I'm still learning also...A fine line.

Which begs an argument on what type of training is needed before private groups go into these canyons. The permit system can be a pain, and asks the right questions, but I wonder how many of these groups truthfully answer them? After this week, it seems proper training could help more with protecting the environment, and safety of the group and other groups passing through.

Behunin
Fantastic. We had lots of questions from everyone hiking up to Angel's landing, wondering if they forgot something as they stared at our heavy packs. Some challenges, and rope work. The last couple of raps get you focused! Watch out for the stinging nettle. This was our #3 favorite for the week.

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Pine Creek
Very fun canyon. Loved this one! Full of water. We started down under the bridge, and ~2 minutes after leaving the car had our full wetsuits on. We ran into Rick Rasmussen on the road back from the Ogden Fire Department who said he has done this canyon a number of times, and has never seen it so full of water. Very clear, and no smell. The bouldering walk out is a bit of a pain. Dylan, park ranger, picked us up and took us back through the tunnel. This was #5 on our list, ranked in order of favorites for Zions so far...

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Keyhole
Short, and a lot of fun. We ran into tourists going up the canyon, in street clothes through all the swimmers. I was impressed on how far they made it. This is #6.

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Englestead/Orderville/Narrows
Very long day. Got the 6:30 Zions Adventure Shuttle, and Daniel had us soon on our way. We ended up using a 300' rope, left it, then came back for it at the end of the day. 6 am to 9 pm before we had the rope and were back at camp. The first and subsequent raps on this one are a ton of fun. We were worried about it, after hearing all the near misses from people. But it turned out to be a lot easier than we expected. Both canyons were phenomenal! Once we got toward the end of Orderville and into the Narrows, we ran into heavy crowds. This part of the trip was our least favorite. However, this is #2 on our list of favorites.

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Spry
Our favorite. It even matched the name of our packs! Ha ha. The raps, downclimbs, approach, free hanging 90' rap, the waterfalls in the pool at the return... Speaking of the pool. We hiked up at the end and found a secluded pool on our own with waterfalls coming into it. Wow, what a discovery. Stripped down for the swim, got in, and then 3 college girls came walking through? How did they find it? They said it was the first hit on Google. Ah...I guess all these places are well known. :bath:Took about a dozen cars to get a ride back. Loved this canyon!

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Middle Echo
#4, well worth it! Full of water, and we got a bit chilled in a couple of the dark sections. Not very challenging, but unique, deep, and dark. Ready to try lower echo skipping the last rap if we can perhaps throw sections of rope down every few hundred feet from the trail?:lol8:


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Mystery
#7, and the rap on slippery moss into the Narrows with an audience is not to be missed. And the rap into the spring was a treat. However, the long approach combined with "death gully" and the hot sandy hike up and over in the middle were distractions. The narrow section of canyon raps were fun. Even though this made it last on our list (sorry Tom, just an opinion), it was a blast and I would do it again in a heartbeat.


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Friday night we even caught the premier of Batman at the Zions theater. Good times. Already counting down the days for the next trip.:2thumbs:

Fun stuff, thanks for the rundown!

Yes, there are a lot of people in Zion in the summer. The good news is, they're pretty much all in one place, or a few places. Get away from those places, and there are few to no people. And the popular canyons (the ones you did) get chewed up by the traffic, for sure. Outside those canyons, not so much. Starting at 6 am is also a good way to miss the crowds. Getting out into the less-visited canyons and there is plenty of adventures available.

I'm glad to see you went through the second rappel / arch and tunnel section of Spry - and I am slightly surprised to see it change yet again. Hope you did the rap under the block too - cold swim that one usually is.

Tom

Great trip report. Glad to see you enjoyed yourself. You defiantly seen a good portion of Zion but there is a lot more left to see off the beaten path to keep you coming back for more.

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Ready to try lower echo skipping the last rap if we can perhaps throw sections of rope down every few hundred feet from the trail?

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You can just hang a rope near the end so you don't have to jug out all the drops. It's easy to see where, just look near where the Echo trail first meets the edge of the canyon and You'll figure it out.

:cool2:

Good TR. thanks for sharing.


From wnorton using an iPad and Tapatalk HD.

Nice TR! You were a busy boy it seems. And spot on with your observations. I personally would rate Pine Creek higher than Behuinin, and Englestead higher than Spry, but it's like arguing blondes vs brunettes vs redheads, haha. I just love splashing in the water more and dry sweaty canyons not as much. Personal preference right! :lol8:

The important thing is we both put Mystery on the bottom of the list where it belongs.

Thanks for sharing and really enjoyed reading..

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

I'm glad to see you went through the second rappel / arch and tunnel section of Spry - and I am slightly surprised to see it change yet again. Hope you did the rap under the block too - cold swim that one usually is.

Tom

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Absolutely. We're here to experience the canyon, not avoid it.:nod: Yes, we found the block under there and went down into the black swim. Bit murky.

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

You can just hang a rope near the end so you don't have to jug out all the drops. It's easy to see where, just look near where the Echo trail first meets the edge of the canyon and You'll figure it out.

:cool2:

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Nice. Will look. Great tip, thanks.

Great trip report! :2thumbs:

Ok, I'll do it.
Where is ZIONS ??? :ne_nau:

Nice photos! :popcorn:

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Originally Posted by flatiron

Ok, I'll do it.
Where is ZIONS ??? :ne_nau:

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My closest branch is in Kanab, but they have branches all over. There's even one in Springdale.

Website: https://www.zionsbank.com/

(thank you. Finally, someone else can be the grammar police :cool2: )

Tom

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Originally Posted by flatiron

Ok, I'll do it.
Where is ZIONS ??? :ne_nau:

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Hehehe, I was expecting that comment much much higher in this topic!

Mountaineer - you made the nr.1 non-technical mistake in canyoneering... as you probably already found out/ understood, it is Zion and not Zions NP.

Your trip report kicks ass however!! :2thumbs:
Good to hear you had a great time!

Great TR!

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Originally Posted by maarten.1975

Hehehe, I was expecting that comment much much higher in this topic!

Mountaineer - you made the nr.1 non-technical mistake in canyoneering... as you probably already found out/ understood, it is Zion and not Zions NP.

Your trip report kicks ass however!! :2thumbs:
Good to hear you had a great time!

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Thanks for politely pointing out the error. To make sure I wasn't going insane, I called a few family and friends to name that national park in southern Utah and they all came back with Zions. This will take some effort to properly "unlearn". Good one!

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Where is ZIONS ??? :ne_nau:

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It's right next to Springdales.

Nice TR. Thanks for sharing!

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Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Thanks for politely pointing out the error. To make sure I wasn't going insane, I called a few family and friends to name that national park in southern Utah and they all came back with Zions. This will take some effort to properly "unlearn". Good one!

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Just kidding ya. Hey, I have friends out here who call my hometown of Chicago, Illinois, as CHEEEcago (like cheese), IlliNOISE (ending in S) Never been there either, no idea where it is! :lol8:

The great thing is you sound just like I did after doing my 1st week of canyoneering, which also was in ZionS, and I had almost no idea what the heck I was getting into. That of being completely jacked up and realizing I had just found my new favorite sport!!! Congrats.:2thumbs:
1 last thing. Holy cow, I cannot believe you went all the way back up to Englestead to recapture 300' rope. Suggest next time on 300' entrance rap to do the double rap, 80' & 220'. a) it is little more tech advanced meaning FUN. b) no need to buy/use 300' rope. c) best of all back at camp and DONE by 5pm easy schmeazzy enjoying food, adult beverages and BS stories, instead of driving up and back and finishing at 9PM. Next time!!!:nod:

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Originally Posted by flatiron

Holy cow, I cannot believe you went all the way back up to Englestead to recapture 300' rope. Suggest next time on 300' entrance rap to do the double rap, 80' & 220'. a) it is little more tech advanced meaning FUN. b) no need to buy/use 300' rope. c) best of all back at camp and DONE by 5pm easy schmeazzy enjoying food, adult beverages and BS stories, instead of driving up and back and finishing at 9PM. Next time!!!:nod:

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Yes, thanks. Exactly. Planning on doing it this way next time.

I don't know where you are getting your lengths from.... but.... if you use the staged entrance to englestead the rappels are 80' & 200' and the route can easily be done with two 60 meter (196') ropes. We have done this route numerous times and only used 60's. Just make sure your ropes have not shrunk.

Sent using Tapatalk

Shane, it's confusing to introduce metric into this conversation.

I hope this helps:

http://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4d998-3f92-4663.jpg

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

I don't know where you are getting your lengths from.... but.... if you use the staged entrance to englestead the rappels are 80' & 200' and the route can easily be done with two 60 meter ropes. We have done this route numerous times and only used 60's. Just make sure your ropes have not shrunk.

Sent using Tapatalk

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Support.

60 meters being 200 feet, and a standard length for ropes, when new. But ropes tend to shrink in use, so you gotta be careful.

Tom

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Originally Posted by Felicia

Shane, it's confusing to introduce metric into this conversation.
I hope this helps:
[pic]

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Hehehe, for me it was finally becoming clear, now that Shane started using the correct measurement-system.....
:banana:

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Originally Posted by maarten.1975

Hehehe, for me it was finally becoming clear, now that Shane started using the correct measurement-system.....
:banana:

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I agree with you as metric is my first choice. My concern and my experience is that mixing metric into this conversation might be dangerous.

Fully correct and I fully agree Felicia!

Even though this thread subject is still incorrect with Zion's'....., but for completeness: I'm assuming a new 60m rope (less than 200') will not come up short? Blue water has a 61m rope, and I suppose you could also use your tip toes for making up a fraction of 1m.

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Originally Posted by Mountaineer

but for completeness: I'm assuming a new 60m rope (less than 200') will not come up short?

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I've actually done the route with two 185' ropes using the mid-station entrance. If your 200' rope is short you will find a large ledge about 15' above the canyon floor you can stage a third rappel from. The lower ledge is HUGE compared to the one at the top and there is a bolt hidden in the back corner.

And I know this because..... Englestead was the first time I realized how much a rope could shrink. I used the same 60 meter (200') climbing ropes the year before and they were about 1' from the canyon floor. The next year I used the same ropes on the same rappel and the ropes were about 10' short. :eek2:

After that I did a little research and discovered that 5% to 10% shrinkage for ropes is not uncommon, particularly when dealing with canyoneering ropes that are subject to numerous wet and dry cycles.

:cool2:

Great TR I would also rate Pine Creek a little higher but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Good job on blazing through the trails though 7 for 7 days is a good track record.

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

I've actually done the route with two 185' ropes using the mid-station entrance. If your 200' rope is short you will find a large ledge about 15' above the canyon floor you can stage a third rappel from. The lower ledge is HUGE compared to the one at the top and there is a bolt hidden in the back corner.

And I know this because..... Englestead was the first time I realized how much a rope could shrink. I used the same 60 meter (200') climbing ropes the year before and they were about 1' from the canyon floor. The next year I used the same ropes on the same rappel and the ropes were about 10' short. :eek2:

After that I did a little research and discovered that 5% to 10% shrinkage for ropes is not uncommon, particularly when dealing with canyoneering ropes that are subject to numerous wet and dry cycles.

:cool2:

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Hey I used YOUR beta!!! Or maybe it was Tom's. ONE of you guys screwed me up!!!

Welllllllll, actually it was me. My old rope had shrunk and I needed to stop at huge lower ledge and do a last 3rd rap. Still much better than doing to 300' rope stuff. (buying, loaning, carrying, retrieving, paying someone (NO WAY), or worst of all going back up at end of day. Just my opinion. :nod:

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Originally Posted by flatiron

Hey I used YOUR beta!!! Or maybe it was Tom's. ONE of you guys screwed me up!!!

Welllllllll, actually it was me. My old rope had shrunk and I needed to stop at huge lower ledge and do a last 3rd rap. Still much better than doing to 300' rope stuff. (buying, loaning, carrying, retrieving, paying someone (NO WAY), or worst of all going back up at end of day. Just my opinion. :nod:

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Stopping at the LARGE ledge is not a problem. But some have had a bad day, and stopped at a very small ledge. From the Large Ledge, look up about 15 feet - there are a couple of bolts.

Which I think is well less than 200 feet from the anchor in the corner.

Tom

FWIW: 60 meters equals 197'. However, my first two 60m Imlay ropes were sold to me 204' and 208' long. I'm assuming this was intentional and thanks for the extra. On the subject of ropes and rappel length, it seems like many raps are exaggerated or rounded up in the two beta sources most of us use. I don't mind, just curious. For example, the final rap in Imlay is given as 130' or 135' but we did it with a 120' rope my buddy mistakenly took instead of his 150. Anyone else?

Nice TR! :nod:

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Originally Posted by Taylor

FWIW: 60 meters equals 197'. However, my first two 60m Imlay ropes were sold to me 204' and 208' long. I'm assuming this was intentional and thanks for the extra. On the subject of ropes and rappel length, it seems like many raps are exaggerated or rounded up in the two beta sources most of us use. I don't mind, just curious. For example, the final rap in Imlay is given as 130' or 135' but we did it with a 120' rope my buddy mistakenly took instead of his 150. Anyone else?

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Imlay ropes generally have extra length of 1 to 2 feet per hundred. This is common in the industry.

But of course, they shrink. So who knows how long it is now?

Us beta-providers grab some ropes and go do canyons. Somewhat later we write them up.

- Hey Brian, how long was that final rappel?
- Well, we had that 200'er of yours, and it seemed like there was 50 feet left over.

Next time, you bring shorter ropes. So the process takes a while to zero in on the 'exact length'.

But then again, that last rappel on Imlay is about 115 feet (using the new anchor). But should I publish it as that? I tend to pad things a little bit so people don't get caught out when they are not aware that their rope has shrunk.

Would you rather have us round DOWN?

Tom

Nice TR ! !