How Do You Stein

Or more commonly called "Stone" hitch/knot?

I see several differing methods shown online, I wouldn't say one is particularly better, but here is my version, It is based off the figure of 8 design and I believe puts less tension on whatever device you secure with, be it drafting ruler:nod: or carabiner, thus making the release of the securing device somewhat easier than those who base the stone hitch off a overhand rather than a figure of 8.

Please note the use of a 1/4" mallion rapide in the system........

OK! So what's the intent, "purpose" for using this hitch?
I'm supposing it's to isolate each individual strand?

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Originally Posted by Bo_Beck

OK! So what's the intent, "purpose" for using this hitch?
I'm supposing it's to isolate each individual strand?

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Yes, Bo, Mostly isolating strands. But there are other applications but I won't get into them here. Mostly just seeing how others are tying this hitch.
It is handy if you have a good anchor and some room, to expedite folks through a canyon.

Looks good. That would be an Upward-Figure-8 Stone. I've been using an Upward-Overhand-Stone myself. The bending force on the drafting ruler is the same or very close, Fig 8 or Overhand.

Tom :moses:

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

Looks good. That would be an Upward-Figure-8 Stone. I've been using an Upward-Overhand-Stone myself. The bending force on the drafting ruler is the same or very close, Fig 8 or Overhand.

Tom :moses:

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I could never dispute the force on the ruler, I have no way of testing.
The key I would guess, is getting started "UPWARD", the 8 version has one more twist vs. the overhand.
I've witnessed a few attempts that didn't take that into consideration.(upward)
So I thought to post a refresher.

I believe this would be Tom's variation.

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Originally Posted by oldno7

I could never dispute the force on the ruler, I have no way of testing.
The key I would guess, is getting started "UPWARD", the 8 version has one more twist vs. the overhand.
I've witnessed a few attempts that didn't take that into consideration.(upward)
So I thought to post a refresher.

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The downward facing works too. But, when fiddlesticking, the downward-facing gets stuck, while the upward-facing self-clears.

T

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

The downward facing works too. But, when fiddlesticking, the downward-facing gets stuck, while the upward-facing self-clears.

T

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I wasn't going to bring that up(fiddlestick) but yes--I agree from what limited use I have witnessed.

Downward facing in the overhand version creates a "cinch" knot that repeated loading over-tightens.

This is also used to tie off slack in climbing...

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How Do You Stein

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...I though this was going to be about beer....

***slowly backs toward door and exits quietly**

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Originally Posted by qedcook

This is also used to tie off slack in climbing...

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Really? When where why how?

T

I gotts me a Totum! I haven't used this knot since.



I have used it in the past to isolate strands for efficiently sending groups down rappels.

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

...I though this was going to be about beer....

***slowly backs toward door and exits quietly**

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:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

I think I'll join you where ever the beer is...:haha:

figure 8 & upwards like the first set of pictures

I posted up on my new new tech tips blog...

http://www.canyoneeringcentral.com/t...ll-that-stuff/

Tom

Hi Tom, just checked out the tech tip. I'm curious, you stated

"

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

Hi Tom, just checked out the tech tip. I'm curious, you stated

"– While perhaps not as ready-to-go as a contingency anchor, like many single-rope techniques, the Stone converts easily to a lowering system. To set yourself up for success, tie your Stone Knot as close as possible to the anchor."

What is the best way to do this? The first thing that came to my mind was attaching another rope to the loop made in between the anchor and the stone knot. Throw up some webbing and rapide and rig a munter with the new rope, take all the slack out as you can, then cut the webbing for the original set up. Lower. However, this requires a second rope.

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You could do it that way, but it would be slow and as you say requires more equipment.

There's an easy and efficient way of doing it, but it is kinda difficult to explain in type. Perhaps Kurt will take a crack at it.

Tom

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

Hi Tom, just checked out the tech tip. I'm curious, you stated

"– While perhaps not as ready-to-go as a contingency anchor, like many single-rope techniques, the Stone converts easily to a lowering system. To set yourself up for success, tie your Stone Knot as close as possible to the anchor."

What is the best way to do this? The first thing that came to my mind was attaching another rope to the loop made in between the anchor and the stone knot. Throw up some webbing and rapide and rig a munter with the new rope, take all the slack out as you can, then cut the webbing for the original set up. Lower. However, this requires a second rope.

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While there might be an easier way, I would use a 2:1 or 4:1 mechanical advantage to get the load off the stein knot. After that you can rig up your favorite lowering system, figure 8, munter, etc. and lower away! This will work best if you are using the stein knot to isolate 2 strands and have the other side of the rope available for lowering. If using the stein for fiddlesticking, you would need a second rope and would also need to deal with a knot in the system.

FWIW, using the totem in Jester mode isolates both strands and is a contigency anchor that converts to a lowering system without using mechanical advantage.

Ugh, I have tried and tried those knots but they always cinch up like a bitch and it takes me longer to get them out than anything. I tend to canyoneer with my 230lb 6'4" buddies a lot. So instead of spending 4 minutes trying to get that bad boy off at the end, I just do something like this. Gay I know, but the removal part at the end is simple plus I like using quick draws to attach directly to the each anchor (when 2 are present) and bypassing the webbing. There should be a 2nd quick draw but everything is packed up for tomorrows trip, and I don't feel like rummaging around to get another one. Hehe.

Attachment 53625Attachment 53626

Are you back in High School, DC?

Using "gay" as an epithet is mildly offensive when high school kiddies do it, but it is part of the culture, so waddayagonnado?

But among adults? Are you an adult, DeathCricket?

Tom

No, I'm sorry if that offends you and your boyfriend though. No offense was intended at all.

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

Using "gay" as an epithet is mildly offensive when high school kiddies do it, but it is part of the culture, so waddayagonnado?

But among adults? Are you an adult, DeathCricket?

Tom

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Originally Posted by Deathcricket

No, I'm sorry if that offends you and your boyfriend though. No offense was intended at all.

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Thanks, that clarifies things nicely. Ta ta!

Tom

Censorship, Tom? I thought you were liberal. jk. Almost everybody is for some kind of censorship. It's just what people want censored that causes disagreements.

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Originally Posted by qedcook

Censorship, Tom? I thought you were liberal. jk. Almost everybody is for some kind of censorship. It's just what people want censored that causes disagreements.

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Tom asked someone to use respectful language. That's not censorship. That's just a request for respect.