Lessons learned and questions to be asked..

OK. I've been out twice now and heading out again at the end of the week. I've got a couple of questions for ya'll. This might be long and scatter brained, bear with me:crazycobasa::popcorn:

in another thread people have posted their gear lists for a 3 day uinta trip and a couple of you guys have stated your packs are in the 40ish pound range. I well surpassed that. I think I'm getting a good idea as to why in retrospect but it still wouldn't get me down to that range which I really would like to be.

Without further ado, here is what I took with me:


Biggies:
-Tent (Marmot abode) *
-Old thermarest foam pad
-Marmot never summer 30 degree bag.
-20 feet and 10 feet of rope....30 total.
-parachute hammock**
-deuter 65L pack (borrowed, it

To give you an idea, my pack, minus food, water and booze is at 27.74 lbs. Carpeybiggs was saying his basic weight was 15 lbs. Which 15-20 is usually where a couple of my friends sit every time we go out. They are ultralight backpackers, who carry the bare minimum with virtually no creature comforts. I feel I end up in the light backpacker category, because I usually try to keep my pack under 40 lbs. I don't carry the kitchen sink, but like to have a few things, plus my camera gear that adds weight to my bag. Then you have the guy who brings everything and the kitchen sink, which I never understood. I always evaluate it in terms of, am I really gonna need that, or am I just thinking about having it, but really not going to end up using it? I use 99% of everything I pack in. First Aid kit rarely gets opened, and that would be the 1%. And minus emergency food that I travel with, I eat everything I pack in with me, and I drink everything of course, so 32-35 on the way in, 27 on the way out. Works out perfect for me. :cool2:

OK.. I will probably go into more detail later..

You would be surprised with how well your dog will do with carrying its own food right now.. 5-8 lbs of food and its bowls and its pad/bag is not that much for them to carry.. I may have a spare pack floating around here somewhere I can hook you up with for seriously cheap (drybags for food storage will take care of your water love issues) :).. what size is your dog..

Dropping more weight elsewhere.. for 3 days you really shouldn't need two fuel canisters.. actually what I have done in the past to shed weight is to use my stove and backpacking gear at home one weekend.. stuff I didn't use I left home :)

Day hiking.. depending on the pack I take I either take the top off my Gregory and use that as a daypack or use the full pack as a daypack (gregory is the big pack all my others are rather small)

I would say get rid of the tent all together and get used to using a tarp, bivysack or hammoc :)

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Originally Posted by DOSS

Dropping more weight elsewhere.. for 3 days you really shouldn't need two fuel canisters.. actually what I have done in the past to shed weight is to use my stove and backpacking gear at home one weekend.. stuff I didn't use I left home :)

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:hail2thechief: Beat me too it. I was gonna mention that.

Here is a link my friend Collin sent me to a sight which is all about ultralight backpacking.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...ght/index.html

Nebz...great site! I'll definitely be spending some time on there lol.

yeah I definitely learned the 2 can of fuel haha. I wasn't entirely sure so I erred on the side of caution.

for the dog pack. I actually have one that I used for my previous dog. its not huge but it should be able to hold a bit of stuff..i'd say all her food and her dog bowl. maybe a small blanket if I can stuff it in there. I've got 2 small dry bags that just might fit it perfectly. I'm leaving Thursday for another trip, think i could just throw the pack on her and go w/no training or being used to it? She's had it on before but no more than 5 min at a time. she's a 2 year old aussie shepard. medium sized dog...not sure how much she weights..i'd say 30lbs give or take some.

this is good stuff, thanks guys!!

my basic weight is close to ten pounds. sometimes under 8. if it will be nasty weather it's more like 12. i can't see what people are carrying that weighs so damn much!

food should be about 2 to 2.5 pounds a day for weekend warriors. try to average around 120 - 150 calories an ounce. anything more than that is overkill, or luxury.

biggest weight savings is in sleeping bag/sleeping pad/tent/backpack. my tent is 14 ounces, total. sleeping pad is 14 ounces (neoair, zrests are even lighter). sleeping bag for summer shouldn't weigh more than a pound and a half, or you are carrying too much. and my backpack weighs 16 ounces, or the heavier one is about 26 ounces.

for clothes i literally carry hiking clothes, and i carry a pair of capilene long underwear, a pair of socks, and a pair of underwear, and a montbell superlight down jacket, a patagonia houdini wind jacket, and a driducks rain jacket, and a 2 ounce rain skirt. my clothes come in at less than two pounds total. the way i see it, i'm either out moving around and warm, or i'm in my sleeping bag warm. i don't just hang out much.

i don't carry a water filter. i carry a steripen. much lighter and faster. i also don't carry a stove a lot of times. i carry food that can rehydrate cold, or be eaten dry.

however, my base weight doesn't include camera gear, which can be between 3-8 pounds depending on what i feel like taking. i think it was around 3.5 pounds this last trip, with a gitzo tripod, and a panny gh2 with 7-14 lens.

other things that fill up weight - first aid kit. should be about 3 ounces or so. duct tape, safety pin, sewing needle, thread, antibiotic, and pain killers is all i carry. i can fashion bandages out of duct tape and toilet paper, or my clothes. pocketknife is a tiny victorinox that weighs like .7 ounces or something.

personal hygiene - 3 ounces or less. small toothpaste, toothbrush, anti-germ handwash after the morning deuce.

i think that about covers it?

if the dog can't carry it's own stuff then it stays home. the dog can probably handle 20-25% of it's body weight. a good dog pack is key. you can line it with the really huge ziploc bags to keep everything dry.

i only take a tent in winter. a silicone impregnated tarp is my preferred shelter. lightweight bag and ultralight thermarest and spaceblanket (my groundsheet) completes my sleeping gear.

i don't take much in the way of extra clothes on trips. usually just extra socks. like senor carpey if it gets cold out i am either moving or in my bag. also i like to go stoveless. no fuel or pots and pans. just food that is no cook. a days rations fits into a quart ziploc. not out there to gain weight. boring i know but i would rather be bored than carry the weight.

my first aid kit is simple. duct tape, some aspirin, moleskin, dental floss and needles, and a piece of leather to bite down on while i sew myself up. ok, i made that last part up. pencil and notepad, so i can write some pithy comments for those who find my dessicated corpse.

on desert trips the water is my biggest weight. often i am carrying 9 liters to get from one known source to the next. i do carry a filter.

my base weight is around 10-12lbs. with food and water i can do an 8 day trip and leave the car with a pack in the 35-40lb range.

also most everything in my pack has more than one use.

extras are my little digicam, gps (sometimes), maps (always), compass. swiss army knife (razor sharp),

my pack isn't that light. i find that lowering and hauling packs across sandstone really chews up nylon. i am looking for a new pack though.

Why the lantern and extra headlamp? Just carry one headlamp. Make sure the batteries are charged and/or bring another set of batteries. I always check the charge and have never carried an extra set of batteries, even on a week long trip. just my $0.02. +1 on the hammock, that's the only way I camp.


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Originally Posted by gloo

Nebz...great site! I'll definitely be spending some time on there lol.

yeah I definitely learned the 2 can of fuel haha. I wasn't entirely sure so I erred on the side of caution.

for the dog pack. I actually have one that I used for my previous dog. its not huge but it should be able to hold a bit of stuff..i'd say all her food and her dog bowl. maybe a small blanket if I can stuff it in there. I've got 2 small dry bags that just might fit it perfectly. I'm leaving Thursday for another trip, think i could just throw the pack on her and go w/no training or being used to it? She's had it on before but no more than 5 min at a time. she's a 2 year old aussie shepard. medium sized dog...not sure how much she weights..i'd say 30lbs give or take some.

this is good stuff, thanks guys!!

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Well since I have the same dog as you.. she can carry all of her food for 3 days plus some water and a blanket. If you are worried how she will do with the weight.. pack her bag tonight and every night this week put it on her and go for a walk.. you might find that it is nice to have that hyper energy laden dog to want to sleep all night being a bit tired... :haha:

also for websites check out practicalbackpacking.com I think the knowledge base there is usually a bit more diverse :stud:

For stove you might also check into building your own hobo stove and use pinecones etc to cook with, this sheds the weight of fuel (only when going places that you can find twigs and pinecones though).

Walmart actually has a small sinlon tarp that they are selling.. cheap.. might be something to pick up and play with in the back yard to see if you like it...

Deodorant? I could give a rats ass what you smell like when you backpack, but your girlfriend might. Get rid of the multifunction tool, too heavy. X10 about the dog carrying it's own weight, get rid of half your clothes (and most things you duplicated - headlamp, fuel- do you need two canisters?), carry less water. I have a Wetern Mountaineering 40 degree bag that goes down to 30 when pressed, nearly weightless. Get a smaller single wall tent, or a tarp. I bought a gravity filter by MSR, less weight than my Katadyn and can function as a dirty water bag in camp. My base weight is about 15lbs but I always blow it with camera stuff. If I bring my smaller Lumix dmc-1 I can keep my weight a little over 30 lbs.

a good breakdown on gear...

http://coloradotrailmap.com/colorado-trail-gear-list/

http://coloradotrailmap.com/images/c...-gear-list.jpg

In order to lower the weight of your pack you have to get the right gear and be in the right mindset, IMO. The right gear usually costs quite a bit but is worth it in the long run. Getting in the right mindset is a little harder. I made the transition by just leaving stuff at home(ie. an extra light/lamp, extra clothes, gadgets/multitools, etc.) and then realizing while I was out there that I didn't really need those things. For me it was by trial and my pack just kept getting lighter and lighter each time I went. I wouldn't consider myself a true ultralighter because my pack weight is around 25lbs total for a 3 day trip(which is usually what I do) but it's about 20lbs or so lighter than when I started.

Using a smaller pack helps too. If you can't fit all that extra stuff then you tend to only bring what you really need. I've been using an Osprey Kestrel 38 liter pack all year. It's marketed as a large daypack or light overnighter and it has served me well for 4-day trips.

I've been doing more day hiking (mostly canyons) for the past few years. Over the weekend I went up Box Elder Peak and started thinking about how I could lighten/smarten up. I love the pot-cozy idea and can't wait to make one!
In good weather I love tarp-camping. I found an REI tent footprint (don't remember which tent, but it's small, just enought tarp space for me and my pack) on clearance for like 8 bucks about a year ago. It's coated nylon with stake down points at each corner that can be used as tie-down points if it needs to become an emergency shelter. I carry a few yards of parachute cord for this contingency, but the cord mostly gets used when I need a place to hang wet clothes. I also have a bivy, but it's Army-provided-gear and is a bit heavier than civilian models because it has a full-length heavy-duty zipper, and snaps that allow it to snap onto the sleeping bag that came with the system. I've used it often enough but I'd prefer not to carry it if I don't have to. Plus it's camouflage and reminds me of work when I'm on vacation.
Some good advice (and links) here though. Thanks guys! Keep it up.

this is excellent info, much appreciated!! I'm packed and ready to leave again in the morning and my pack weighs in at a heavy 36lbs. I left a lot out, but I would bet my left leg there's still stuff I'm taking I don't really need. I'm definitely going to start saving up for some new/better gear. The marmot hydrogen i think is tops on my list right now. My arcteryx axios 50 pack isn't too heavy but I have a hard time fitting all my gear in space wise into it for multiday stuff so i've been borrowing packs lol.

so - some of you mentioned that you go for food that you don't need to bring a stove (or pot i think). What would your food list be for a multi day trip?

on the tarp stuff - how big do you guys have? just big enough for you and your pack? or do you have it big enough to fit two peeps on (or under if raining)?

Nick - I'm super impressed that you can fit all your stuff for 4 days in that pack:hail2thechief:

my tarp is 10x12 and has room for more that two people. weighs about a pound. obviously not bug proof. i use my trekking pole to pitch if there aren't any trees around. i have been looking at getting the big agnes fly creek 2, it only weighs 2 lb 10 oz. looks like a real nice tent (not cheap however).

my food is spartan and boring, especially on day 8 of a trip, but it all fits into a 1 qt. ziploc. one micro ziploc with a breakfast of grapenuts, the pwd milk and some sugar are all in the bag. one micro ziploc with trailmix. 1 or 2 candy bars, some kind of cookie or bag of chips (need to find a balance of sweet and salty during the day), 2 mozzarella cheese sticks (mozzarella handles the heat better than cheddar), lots of dried fruit (easily done yourself), beef or turkey jerky (the costco packs say 9 servings and i will divide it into 5 days worth). if i want to take my little alcohol stove (google pepsi can stove) for a hot drink or meal then the instant potatoes mixed with a cheese stick works great. also now there are the foil packs of tuna which are brilliant (get a couple packets of mayo and relish from a deli and you can have tuna salad). i also have a old metal army canteen cup which i can heat water and cook in (that is my only pot). i might also add a 2 liter packet of some kind of drink mix like crystal lite (whatever is your favorite). usually i just drink water though.

with a pack the size of yours i can do 8 day trips with no problem. if you can't fit it all in then just keep cutting stuff out. to me it is a perfect size. i use an old arcteryx bora 40 and do 3 day trips in summer.

it's the clothing where i save lots of weight. in summer i don't take long underwear. i wear pants that have zipoff lower legs, a lightweight quick drying long sleeve shirt (roll up the sleeves and i have a short sleeve shirt), a lightweight fleece beanie, fingerless gloves, a light down sweater for camp wear and a cagoule for the rain. lots of socks though, 1 pair for every two days. if it gets that cold i just stop and get in my bag. if its raining i hike with as little clothes on as i can get away with (bare skin dries fast and wet clothes don't keep you warm anyway)

my sleeping bag is an old slumberjack guide model rated to 30 deg and weighs just over a kilo. and it's freaking cheap.
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/slumb...er-guide-+30f/

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Originally Posted by gloo

so - some of you mentioned that you go for food that you don't need to bring a stove (or pot i think). What would your food list be for a multi day trip?

on the tarp stuff - how big do you guys have? just big enough for you and your pack? or do you have it big enough to fit two peeps on (or under if raining)?

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I have a couple of tarps depending on what the weather is supposed to be like and who is going with me.. I have a 9X9 and a 12X12... I like the square configurations for ease of setup.. if you do decide to go tarp spend the time to learn how to set it up in multiple configurations in your back yard before going out.. it can be frustrating when you are just getting going with the tarp thing to have it bring the suck because of poor setup.

You may also look into some of they hybrids with no floor but a screen door etc, they are almost as light and every time I am in the Uintas I wish I had more screen

as for food on no cook 3 day weekends My list usually goes something boring like
Original power bars 3 - breakfast
Mojo Bars 6 (various flavors) - Dinners
Almonds - Snacks
3 Snickers bars - Dessert
Tortillas and Peanut butter - Lunches
Gatorade powder - with every meal

When I do cheese Like Denaliguide I have a DIY cooler made out of my clothes and I freeze day 2 and 3's food and put it with the cheese ;)

other things I have taken are, Foil packed salmon, Beef jerky (thompsons smokehouse in Tooele makes the best IMHO)

My sleeping bag is a for 3 seasons is a summer rated bag 60* so on cold nights I sleep in my clothes to make up for the difference :) - you can also save weight on your sleeping bag by cutting out the bottom of the bag and sleeping directly on your sleeping pad as compressed sleeping bag filling really isn't going to insulate you any (such is the reason many UL hikers end up making their own down quilts)

You can probably shave some weight of your current pack by trimming off extra webbing and such too.

Wow, I just learned several things that I wish I had known before. My pack is also typically just shy of 50 pounds (but that is if I include my handgun and bullets). But from what I see here I bet I can get it down to 30. I never really thought of the principal of just getting a smaller pack so that you won't try to throw in crap you don't need.

Great thread :2thumbs:

Love threads like this one. One can always learn a new trick or two. Thanks for all the great tips. One thing that I do is evaluate what I used (and didn't use) after I get back from a trip. Then I take a second look at that equipment or whatever for the next trip. Of course this does not include emergency preparedness items. I used to always come home with GORP, I am down to taking about 10% of what I started hiking with and it seems I've found the sweet spot for me. I am a light to medium weight hiker according to the lists CarpeyBiggs posted, great list by the way.

Good luck with the reductions.

some great I learned. I'm gonna start looking into the tarp set up. I could save so much weight ditching my tent lol. W/out getting any new gear I bet I can still get my pack down to around 30lbs for a 3 day trip now which would be stellar.

Doss- that's a pretty boring food list but it sure looks easy and lets the focus be on the backpacking instead of the food. I want to try a trip like that now haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gloo

some great I learned. I'm gonna start looking into the tarp set up. I could save so much weight ditching my tent lol. W/out getting any new gear I bet I can still get my pack down to around 30lbs for a 3 day trip now which would be stellar.

Doss- that's a pretty boring food list but it sure looks easy and lets the focus be on the backpacking instead of the food. I want to try a trip like that now haha.

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These guys make some killer tarp tents. Not cheap though.
www.tarptent.com

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by gloo

some great I learned. I'm gonna start looking into the tarp set up. I could save so much weight ditching my tent lol. W/out getting any new gear I bet I can still get my pack down to around 30lbs for a 3 day trip now which would be stellar.

Doss- that's a pretty boring food list but it sure looks easy and lets the focus be on the backpacking instead of the food. I want to try a trip like that now haha.

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Yeah.. it is rather boring but I figure I have enough other things to focus on while I am out that I don't care... well not too much - by the end I am craving something much more fulfilling though... it also helps to supplement what you bring with things you can find or catch, I have eaten ground squirrel before :facepalm1:

If you are going to do the Tarp thing this is a good thread with some good links contained in it that covers most of the aspects of the tarp :slobber: http://practicalbackpacking.com/foru...ead.php?t=5323 --- (sorry I know you have to be a member to read all of it but it has good info).