Boy Scouts and Risk

The problem with scouts is there is always one scout master taking the kids on some crazy ass trip.... for example... the scouts in my neighborhood did two trips last year that I considered insane for a group of scouts...

First trip was the troop climbed the Middle Teton... and then strung rope down the east face and the entire troop rappeled down to the moraine.

Second trip was the troop did Red Hollow and entered with the 290' free hanging rappel.... at night!

:crazycobasa: at least to me those two trips were a little over the top....

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

First trip was the troop climbed the Middle Teton... and then strung rope down the east face and the entire troop rappeled down to the moraine.

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North Ridge, most likely. Folks who do the SW Coulior (or any route on the Middle) do come down the North Ridge if they have a need to get to the Lower Saddle, rather than a LOOOONG hike down the south fork of Garnet Canyon, to the Meadows, then all the way back up to the saddle.

With scouts? Yikes. Makes me wonder why...not that there's any shortage of neat things to do in the Tetons, but, that's a nutty one.

I know folks who down climb that terrain, sometimes with a short rappel or two. Kinda complicated, kinda not. Might be easier route finding coming down, although the time I climbed up the North Ridge it was fairly straightforward. We only roped one pitch near the top, where we wanted to do the harder, steeper bit (5.6ish). Seems like there's a way to scramble around that section. Very exposed and a fall off rope would be fatal in a bunch of places.

Ahhh, the Middle. Great chunk of terrain. I think I've done 6 different routes on it...certainly a favorite. Really need to do (finish) the Glacier Route. Maybe weekend of 19/20 June? Haven't got a potential "victim" yet...

Pretty amazing what folks do with scouts. Some good, some fairly risky. Some luck, some saavy. Hard to know which.

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Originally Posted by Brian in SLC

North Ridge, most likely.

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NOPE.... not the north ridge.... straight down the east face.... the entire trip was planned around that series of rappels....

Some of the kids sent me some pictures, I'll see if I can dig them up... I know the rappels didn't go smoothly and it was dark when they got all the kids down....

Shane, you should use your supreme admin powers and cut and paste this junk over to the climbing forum...where no one will see it (ha ha).

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

NOPE.... not the north ridge.... straight down the east face.... the entire trip was planned around that series of rappels....

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Here's a good shot of that side of the Middle scarfed from summit post:

http://c0278592.cdn.cloudfiles.racks...nal/430564.jpg

Doesn't make sense that anyone would rappel the "east face" (really more the NNE face or some such).

There's a bit of a big corner/chimney that goes down just left of the North Ridge, but, I also seem to recall a fair bit of fixed rappel sling-age on the NR as well. My bet is still with the north ridge as really the only reasonable descent option. The "east" face is super steep and exposed. And, goes down much further before you hit walkable terrain. By comparison, the North Ridge is fairly short.

Some photo's of it and a description here:

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/wyo...eton/106495203

P girl soloing it. Its steep, but, no where near as steep and exposed as the east face.

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC
(and move this to the climbing forum so we don't pollute the Subway!).

I'm not sure what their exact line was, but I know it was not to the upper saddle. The kids told me from the top striaght down to the moraine.

Actually.... because of this scout leader most the kids in my hood have some pretty impressive skills. The entire troop can blow through a slot like Pine Creek in under 2 hours from TH to TH. Most of the kids have also aquired a real love for canyoneering and mountaineering.

The troop is always doing crap like climbing Lone Peak in a day with a stop at the cabin.... it's just some of the ideas this scout leader comes up with are a little off the deep end for my comfort level.

Well if the SM & his leadership knows what he is doing and has applied and gotten all the BSA permision and parents know, I think that is awesome!!!!! I take my Scouts all sorts of places as well, if I had more experience I would take them even more crazy places. We have a great time and do it safely while getting the boys places they more than likely will never go to again, but if they do, they will be prepared and know how how to not be "Scouts"

I would imagine these guys had quite a bit of training prior to these trips, if not, then yes this is over the top. Dont underestimate a Scout, I have drug mine on some pretty good outings and they did as well as I did.

I will have my Scouts in the Tetons this year. We arent going down cliffs at night though, because I could not get it done safely.

As a SM I have a different outlook, but I am glad to have the oppurtunity to teach these kids how to do things right vs having a bunch of teenage punks 1/2 drunk in the middle of no where trashing the place like I have found on occasion.

Now to keep Scouts from doing the same thing!!!!

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

I'm not sure what their exact line was, but I know it was not to the upper saddle. The kids told me from the top striaght down to the moraine.

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You mean "Lower" Saddle. Upper Saddle is next to the Enclosure on the Grand.

The Lower Saddle is moraine. The "moraine" runs at the base of the Middle, from the Lower Saddle, in both directions but for our purpose back to the east, where it disappears into the Glacier. Where the moraine comes up highest is where the Lower Saddle bends up to the Middle Teton. Ie, the upper side of the south end of the saddle.

Either way or wherever they rappelled down on that side, they'd be rappelling down towards the Lower Saddle, or, on the Lower Saddle side of the Middle. Too far east and they'd be on snow/ice.

They either descended the North Ridge or just a couple hundred feet at most to the east of there.

Might be possible they rappelled the upper part of the Buckingham, then dropped over to the northeast, but, still, that doesn't make any sense either.

All ask some more questions next time I get a chance. I was under the impression they landed somewhere between the Lower Saddle and Spalding Falls, and landing on the snow would not surprise me... I don't know for sure... I know they didn't do it all in one shot but staged about half a dozen rappels.


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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

it's just some of the ideas this scout leader comes up with are a little off the deep end for my comfort level.

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then next time don"t go. i know, i know, i'm just messin with you. :haha: setting up half a dozen raps with a group of scouts would probaby take forever. and the trip where they were rapping at night is crazy. bona fide and certifiable. only for the experienced. you have to admit sounds more fun than working on your citizenship merit badge. and did you hear, you can now get a merit badge in video gaming?

Interesting thread title. It goes perfectly with my question in this thread:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...-Over-Reacting

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

All ask some more questions next time I get a chance. I was under the impression they landed somewhere between the Lower Saddle and Spalding Falls, and landing on the snow would not surprise me... I don't know for sure... I know they didn't do it all in one shot but staged about half a dozen rappels.


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Funny timing for this thread. Tried for the glacier on Friday June 11th. Snow is as pictured, almost the same exact vantage as Ice Axe's picture. Made it up to the bottom of the narrow pitch up to the right, and finished roping up just in time to see a couple avalanches down that chute. We were a little late getting up there, maybe 8AM, but the amount of snow would still make it sporty at any temperature. We ended up getting about 4" of snow at the meadows by the time we left there early Saturday morning, and it was still coming down. Lots of people up Garnet Canyon with skis!

Re: Boy Scouts and adventurous trips - All I'll say is that the Kolob Canyon scouts were well trained on canyons and ropes before they went as well.

http://i46.tinypic.com/24dj5sz.jpg

I sure wish I would've had a scout master that did stuff like that with me. Maybe then I'd know something now besides hiking.

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Originally Posted by John Peterson

Funny timing for this thread. Tried for the glacier on Friday June 11th. Snow is as pictured, almost the same exact vantage as Ice Axe's picture. Made it up to the bottom of the narrow pitch up to the right, and finished roping up just in time to see a couple avalanches down that chute. We were a little late getting up there, maybe 8AM, but the amount of snow would still make it sporty at any temperature. We ended up getting about 4" of snow at the meadows by the time we left there early Saturday morning, and it was still coming down.

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Did you camp in the Meadows? Did the park require you to have a bear can up there, or, was the in situ box available?

Nice photo!

-Brian in SLC

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The problem with scouts is there is always one scout master taking the kids on some crazy ass trip.... for example... the scouts in my neighborhood did two trips last year that I considered insane for a group of scouts...

First trip was the troop climbed the Middle Teton... and then strung rope down the east face and the entire troop rappeled down to the moraine.

Second trip was the troop did Red Hollow and entered with the 290' free hanging rappel.... at night!

:crazycobasa: at least to me those two trips were a little over the top....

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Hmmmm...I think I know the scout master you're talking about. :lol8:

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Originally Posted by John Peterson

Re: Boy Scouts and adventurous trips - All I'll say is that the Kolob Canyon scouts were well trained on canyons and ropes before they went as well.

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I am going to have to disagree with this statement at least to the degree of training in Class C canyons and training in decision making, aka, common sense. Knots and having done some canyons doesn't equate to good judgement and "training". I would be interested in what skills they had. I know that canyoneering has come a long way but I still would disagree with your statement having read a bunch about that incident.

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Originally Posted by jumar

Hmmmm...I think I know the scout master you're talking about. :lol8:

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Yes you do.... :lol8:

I was hoping you would join this thread and verfiy some of the trips these scouts do.... I get the feeling some of these guys think I'm smoking dupe or something. :toker:

FWIW: I had an awesome scoutmaster when I was a kid. I learned a lot of cool stuff like rock climbing, backpacking, whitewater rafting, kayaking, yada,yada....

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

I get the feeling some of these guys think I'm smoking dupe or something. :toker:

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You are ya "dupe" head. :lol8:

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Yes you do.... :lol8:

I was hoping you would join this thread and verfiy some of the trips these scouts do.... I get the feeling some of these guys think I'm smoking dupe or something. :toker:

FWIW: I had an awesome scoutmaster when I was a kid. I learned a lot of cool stuff like rock climbing, backpacking, whitewater rafting, kayaking, yada,yada....

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Yes I can verify. You're not alone in thinking he takes too many risks with the scouts.

I'm a scout master now. Haven't done anything more extreme than the right fork of Leprechaun.

Hey if I thought I could convince my boys to go We would be gone in a second. As it is I tried to take all of them Ice climbing for the last 2 winters in a row with my partner Darren. So far no one has taken me up on it. I guess that makes me as crazy as this guy. some of the trips we have done people have thought we were crazy.

I'll take my scouts ice climbing. There are crazy ways to ice climb and not so crazy ways.

When I was in scouting all the scoutmaster wanted to do was hike. All I wanted to do was climb. So much for the scouting:wink:

Funny thing when I was about 16 or 17 the scoutmaster called and wanted me and my partner to get them to the top of Gannet Peak. Too bad they couldn't keep up on the way in.:mrgreen: