I just heard of a death in Knotted Rope. Not yet sure of the details...
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I just heard of a death in Knotted Rope. Not yet sure of the details...
Looks like Summit has posted a few details in the hiking section.
http://uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7829
This sucks.... because you just know its probably going to be someone from the Utah canyoneering community.
.
oh man this is horrible. .... Any idea what specific canyon it is?
http://www.kutv.com/video/?id=27338@kutv.dayport.com
I'm 95% sure its Knotted Rope.
Knotted Rope
http://climb-utah.com/SRS/knotted.htm
The shot from the helicopter looked like this pothole. And this would be an easy place to get into trouble, its probably the hardest part of the canyon, particularly in low water. Report is the woman fell and broke her arm and could not get out of the pothole. The news says she probably died of hypothermia.
http://climb-utah.com/SRS/Files/knottedrope2.jpg
oh man that sucks! knotted rope -- I never would've suspected that one to be a killer. UGH...this is not a good year for canyoneers.
The names are released,,,,
Hiker Dies in Southern Utah
July 16th, 2007 @ 10:00pm
Sam Penrod Reporting
A Juab County woman has died after falling in Southern Utah. Marie Coray and her husband, Kimo, were hiking in the San Rafael Swell.
The Corays are experienced hikers. But Marie fell in the rugged country and broke her arm. Kimo worked more than four hours to free his wife. But she died, perhaps from other injuries or exposure. Kimo was flown to a hospital.
The couple was reported overdue from a camping trip on Sunday. The search focused on a remote area, and ended around noon Monday when the couple was found.
Kimo is in the LDS Bishopric in the Mona 3rd Ward. The bishop, Craig Weight, has high praise for Marie.
"I think everybody that knew her loved her," he said. "I don't think she was the kind of person that would ever say anything bad about anybody."
Neighbors say Kimo and Marie were always together.
Krista Steiner described them as a "very, very happy couple, [with the] kind of marriage that we've all kind of envied and want to achieve ourselves."
Kimo operates a photography business. The couple have six children.
Hiker Dies In Rugged Central Utah Canyon
(KUTV) SALT LAKE CITY A woman died in a tragic climbing accident in Emery County, but it wasn
sad.
Canyon fall kills climber
Husband watches helplessly as she tumbles into a 'pothole'
By Erin Alberty
The Salt Lake Tribune
An experienced rock climber died over the weekend when she fell into a pool of water in a remote San Rafael Swell canyon and, because of injuries suffered in the fall, could not pull herself out. Her husband and climbing companion was unable to rescue her.
Marie Coray, 58, was rappelling Saturday over a "pothole" - a pool of water at the bottom of a deep crevice - when she slammed into the canyon wall and broke her arm, apparently in an attempt to swing to a trail on the other side of the pool, said Emery County Sheriff Lamar Guymon.
Because her arm was broken, she could not pull herself out, Guymon said. Her husband, Kimo, couldn't pull her out either.
"He was there with her until she expired," Guymon said.
The accident occurred in a section of the San Rafael Swell that is crisscrossed with deep narrow canyons cut into rock walls. The Corays were exploring Knotted Rope Canyon, a side channel to Cistern Canyon, Guymon said.
The couple were to return to their home in Mona on Saturday. A rescue team began searching about 3 a.m. Monday after the Corays' family reported them missing. Their son, Jimmy Coray, said members of their church became concerned when the couple did not show up for services Sunday morning.
Searchers found Kimo Coray, 58, Monday about 9:30 a.m. after he had walked 20 miles in the wrong direction, Guymon said. Apparently Coray had become disoriented and began hiking out on the wrong trail.
Rescuers rappelled into the pothole to retrieve Marie Coray's body later Monday. Authorities aren't sure whether she drowned or died of hypothermia. An autopsy is likely Tuesday, Guymon said.
Kimo Coray, a professional photographer, suffered cuts and bruises and was dehydrated, Guymon said.
He has returned to his home in Mona; his family said he is not speaking publicly about the accident. The Corays have six adult children.
While it was the couple's first trip to Knotted Rope Canyon, Jimmy Coray said, they went in with 15 years of successful climbs behind them.
"They're very experienced," he said. "It's quite a shock."
Guymon agreed. "This is not a case of someone not knowing what they're doing."
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_6393423
From the helicopter shots I saw on KUTV news it was this pothle. The pothole is easy to identify from the air because the canyon makes a very sharp 90 degree turn about 20 feet upstream.
I believe there are lessons to be learned from examing these accidents.
I know a lot of folks are asking why the man couldn't get his wife out, but I bet when more facts start coming out there will be a strong reason. Maybe she was hurt worse then a simple broken arm? maybe she took a bunch of the gear with her to the bottom of the pothole?
I also questioned why her husband wasn't able to help her out. But I'm guessing she pulled the rope into the pothole with her. Otherwise, the husband would've been able to descend a fixed line to assist in her retrieval.
Either that, or he did have a fixed line in place, but was unable to pull his wife out of the pothole after repeated attempts. Ever try and pull someone straight up out of water at the end of a rope? Extremely difficult. He might have exhausted himself trying.
How awful --- to listen to your wife perish right in front of you, knowing there's nothing you can do to save her.
This is one of the reasons why I prefer to canyoneer in groups larger than 3. In the sport of canyoneering, teamwork is a HUGE asset.
This is a real sad deal. I hope the details will come out on this soon. I would like to hear of the training, experience, and equipment these two had. Also, I would like to hear what efforts/techniques were made to get her out. I don't want to know this information to criticize but rather to add to my knowledge of things to take into a canyon or skills that need to be brushed up on or learned.
I do not think that somebody that lost his dear wife in such a terrible way will be willing to "analyze" "disclose" and be thought any thing.
If that happened to me the last thing i will do is getting out details .
i think is a very sad occurrence and the lesson i am learning that i need to get more training in rescuing whatever canyon i do.
if my dear one get hurt am I able to lift him out and save him from drowining?
am I able to finish or reverse the canyon by myself whithout getting lost?
am I capable of doing first aid help to him?
most of these answer are NO
and that is what i am going to work on, because if something like that happen to me, my life will be affected forever.
that is also why i want my dear partners play 100% safe and ultraconservative when they are with me.
and usually i will not shut up until i get that ,no matter how skilled and strong are my dearest
:frustrated: :frustrated: :frustrated: :frustrated: :bueller: :blahblah:
i admit testosterone demostration only in one kind of situation and that is kind of private.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Card
I've been giving this some though and I'm not sure how you would lift a person out of this pothole by yourself? There is no anchor easily accessible that I can remember that would not cause a major amount of friction in the ropes.
I'd be curious to hear some ideas, Lets assume a person who is of little or no help physically and equal to your own weight. There is a small arch down canyon about 20' that you can sling and use as an anchor. But the small arch is very low in the canyon wall. I can't remember exactly what's immediately up canyon.
This is the pothole that used to have the pole vault pipe in it. Maybe hauling anther pipe down from above would have provided some assistance?
.
Is this what you really think? I thought for sure you would be saying got what they deserved. I mean thatQuote:
Originally Posted by hesse15
Who cleaned up the pipes? maybe she'd still be alive today if the pipes were still there.
[quote=James_B_Wads2000]Is this what you really think? I thought for sure you would be saying got what they deserved. I mean that
[quote=James_B_Wads2000]Is this what you really think? I thought for sure you would be saying got what they deserved. I mean that
The pipes were removed from the canyon? Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
I just heard from Emery County SAR who preformed the rescue in Knotted Rope.
First order of business is SAR wanted to warn all canyoneers that the water levels in Knotted Rope (and other parts of the Swell) are extremely low and the route is in a dangerous condition. Knotted Rope is a route that becomes more difficult as the water levels drop.
And now a few more details.... The accounts in the news are fairly accurate to this point in time. The accident occurred at the first pothole in Knotted Rope. The pictures above are of the pothole where the accident occurred. The water level in the pothole is currently 7 feet below the lip of the pothole. The couple did have a rope and were unable to extract the female from the pothole with the equipment they had available.
http://uutah.com/forum/files/pothole3.jpg
wow James l
ong time not hearing from you
last time was the argument about the grizzly boy
i ended up thinking was a relative of yours for how much you get upset at me.
was he?
i think the other case were different
now we are talking of somebody that saw in front of his eye diyng his love one, the person was planning the rest of his life with,his best friend the companion of his life the mother of his kids.
i think if he can he will gave his life for her.
the other cases are totally different but if you cannot see the difference is not my fault
so do not jump on me this time :hippy:
[quote=James_B_Wads2000]Is this what you really think? I thought for sure you would be saying got what they deserved. I mean thatQuote:
Originally Posted by hesse15
is an old discussion(2 yearsago) between me and james about a movie.
i am a "little' harsh on my comment sometime.... so people sometime does not like that.
by the way no i never been struck by a lightning but i had 3 boyfriend that before meet been had been,
does it count? :haha:
[quote=Jaxx][quote=James_B_Wads2000]Is this what you really think? I thought for sure you would be saying got what they deserved. I mean that
Yeah, I think it is safe to say that you have been less than sensitive in some cases... Particularly the Heaps accident. But your comments today have been very sensitive. Go figure.Quote:
Originally Posted by hesse15
Wait, you are saying three of your previous boyfriends have been struck by lightning? Damn, that must be some kinda bad sign.Quote:
Originally Posted by hesse15
yeah but BEFORE they met me :roflol:
definetly after been strucked by lightning dealing with me was not that bad.
:2thumbs:
perhaps i need electric people in my life....
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpeyBiggs
one is the arm the other is how the electricity come out of the ground
pretty impressive
and again that happened 1 years before he met me
Pardon my ignorance, but do some of ya'll ever practice self or assisted rescues?? Cavers do some, usually in association with an NSS function or a local SAR group. It's status quo in our caving grotto if someone is lost or hurt in a cave we are on a call list and usually assist in the rescue.
Some in our caving group are planning on some big pit raps and ascents in deep caves in Mexico in Dec ( 700 feet to the big one--1200+ feet of free rap) and we are doing a lot of "what if's" this or that goes wrong. No close by help or good medical care in that part of the Yucatan. So planning to be as self sufficient as possible.
Don't know in this case if any training would have been helpful to this poor couple.
Sounds like you're looking for a "Canyon Rescue" class, Shane. I know this red-headed guy that offers one, down Cedar City way...Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Tom
Not very often, but quite a few of us have taken the Canyon Rescue course.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRoxx
Even with a lot of training, extracting the woman would have been difficult given the likely lack of resources. Knotted Rope does not require much technical gear (when full), so they likely did not have a whole lot of gear with them. Anchors in that section of canyon are few and far between. Difficult, and sad.
Tom
Oh I have a few ideas for what I would have done..... And I'm pretty sure my number one option is not in the redheads book..... I mean if he actually had a book. :haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by ratagonia
I am curious to hear what options others would have used before tainting the waters with my thoughts.
I consider these "what if's" to be excellent training.
:popcorn:
first things first... the person trapped in the pothole needs a harness on. in the photo above it appears the person frictioning around the pothole is not wearing a harness.
upcanyon person could find any any suitable anchor to first anchor themselves into.
if no FRICTIONLESS anchors nearby, the person upcanyon would be forced to act as anchor.
person upcanyon needs 2 belaying devices, preferably locking. belaying devices are seperated by a carabiner.
attach the center of the rope to the above mentioned carabiner with a figure 8 or a biner block.
as rescuer is looking downcanyon, he holds onto the the tail end of the right side of the rope and lowers a giant loop to the rescuee.
repeat this step with the left half of the rope, making sure that both loops have enough length to reach rescuees feet.
in essence, a giant "W" should be formed with the rope.
next, rescuee attaches a self-locking knot onto both of the center strands of the rope and attaches this to their belay loop.
in essence, 2 giant foot loops have been formed.
rescuee then shifts weight from foot to foot as rescuer belays with each step.
surely the rescuees feet will slip out of the loops so on the trough of each loop attach a carabiner with a loop of webbing. the loop of webbing may be fastened to the shoes of rescuee with a cinch knot or a simple clove hitch.
...and that's my first thought. what are its weaknesses?[/quote]
Impressive idea Snatch... My only question is what does the woman do with a broken arm? Seems like it would be difficult to balance with only one arm. Unless she is super tough and can handle the pain...
Other than that, all I can say is wow. Not sure I'd be that creative...
with one arm i think the rescuee would be able to adjust the prusik/friction hitch. it would take some strength but all of rescuees weight would be in the footholds, not on the prussik.
Hey Snatch.... I never told you this before but one of your usual parrtners paid you the highest compliment I know of a while back….. he said when things go all to shit Snatch is a guy you want to have around.
:2thumbs:
Formal usual partner. Though I'd still trust my life to Snatch over anyone else I know.
My thoughts were the same, get her harness (if she has one, if not, tie up something quick) rig up a simple prusik/pulley system and start hauling. It's probably not as simple as it sounds, and difficult to keep a level head in that type of situation.
(Knotted rope is a technical canyon, but it can be reversed, so doing it without a harness on is not out of the question.)
Ice, I understand that the water level was 7 feet below the lip of the pothole, any idea how deep the pothole is? could she touch?
Just some other random thoughts.
Cheap and easy footloops--- webbing dog collars sold everywhere complete with snap buckles. Have used those to fabricate a frog system on ascents, can tighten down to keep tension on boots to prevent slippage or unsnap for quick climbing.
I usually carry a small pully with a lock off/friction cam for hauling, useful if you have to rig heavy pack hauling, do a traverse or assist pulling someone up something and you are not that strong, or don't have a good belay system.
Always carry a short length of handline, and a ascender of some sort. To climb up or down short distances if your main or last rope in use and unable to use the tail or whatever. I have traditional handled ascenders ( heavy) and or carry a tibloc.
Caving problem--
We descended a vertical drop of about 40 feet to a room, part of the drop involved squirming into a stone chute about 8 feet in length with two constrictions, so tight helmets removed and shifting about like you were putting on tight jeans. No packs, and everything shoved below or above you, we belled out into the roof of a small room. Coming back up ascending once your upper body was in the hole your legs dangled below you and you couldn't lift them up to assist you because of the first constiction. Your upper body is wedged such that one arm is above you and one below. And you are against gravity. Took a lot of keeping calm and making very small adjustments to get out of that one I tell you. We had several people stationed topside just in case we had to be pulled out, which in fact one guy did have to have help; he was broader shouldered than me. So some things are very difficult even if you have all the gear and are healthy.
That is a super compliment comming from this guy. :eek2: I have still never seen a better photo than the one of you two guys and one other on the side of a mountain looking up at rain clouds or something. The looks on your faces are priceless!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by price1869
I think the pothole in question may be in MK's red book. If not, the two photos still give an impressive (depressive) view of what it might take to extract a person from a similiar one.
FWIW. For those of you who go to the dark side there is a post by an individual who had personal involvement with this couple. He was not impressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce from bryce
Ya I saw that post. Very telling, and confirms some suspicions I had.
Alright.... my rescue method is not all that complex..... but probably has a high chance of success...... why not reverse out and get help from Hidden Splendor? Reversing this route is simple. Its one hour back and there are always people at the airstrip on a weekend. Also, you can get cell coverage from the top of the mesa. Not sure if they had a cell with them or in their vehicle. I'm sure he didn't want to leave his wife.
From crossing the pothole in the past using the pole vault method I'd say the pothole is 15 feet deep from lip to bottom. The water level is currently down 7 feet. I'm pretty sure the pothole water was over the woman's head as I hear her body was recovered hanging in ropes which I'm guessing were rigged to try and stop her from drowning.