Nice troll.....Quote:
Originally Posted by mattandersao
Guess my characterization has merit.
Any intelligent conversation?
Or do you need to turn around and get back to your students?
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Nice troll.....Quote:
Originally Posted by mattandersao
Guess my characterization has merit.
Any intelligent conversation?
Or do you need to turn around and get back to your students?
Can't find the gov. statistic, maybe in your spare time teaching, you can provide one.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattandersao
The NRA's suggestion was "Security Personal" in every school, not necessarily a uniformed police officer. Mention was made to train and arm security personal similar to those at a rock concerts or sporting event.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattandersao
Anyhoo… my first thought was "great idea" but how do we pay for it? My second thought was allow teachers who wanted to become trained security officers handle the job. Those teachers who become certified get a small bump in pay. Sounds simple enough to me.
I really believe the threat of encountering armed and trained security will go a long ways in eliminating these copy-cat school shootings.
I think my point was valid. I have seen concealed permit carriers acting similar to this idiot. I would rather not have guns in the school compared to people like this guy.
I have to give my district test to my classes today thus the time I have had to post (nice fallacy though!:2thumbs:). PS Students are kickin a$$ on the test I would say average score has to be in the 80-90 %! Bring on performance based pay!
Iceaxe- You win! As mentioned earlier though I would want some real life situation training available for those carrying, not just read this article, sign this paper and go to the shooting range a handful of times. They need real scenario training based on past school shootings.
Nope. I wouldn't support this. There are just as many nut-job teachers as not. Having run a physical security team (armed), I was paying (Utah wages) on average $14/hour for a person that was required to weapons qualify every 90 days. Most were former military or police officers working a 2nd job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Or, just follow what Utah's been doing for years: Place a local police officer in every school. We do this already, with the exception of elementary school.
So while you have some spare time, could you run over to the Purgatory shooting range and see if you can find me some .223 brass?:haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by mattandersao
Let's talk about the cost of putting some kind of guard in place. You are thinking this now must mean one additional employee to be hired in the school (once we've established not every classroom).Quote:
Originally Posted by mattandersao
For some it is. If they've got that funding in their budget, great.
Some currently pay a portion to an existing Sheriff Dept officer for their precinct to service the school, thus a trustworthy certified trained officer, who does NOT just sit on a stool all day but they are doing their office work that could be done at the Sheriff's office. This is paid for, in some ways, a teacher can add a student to their classrooms, or a partial student in simple terms. This is somewhat how my position is paid for as a school computer tech.
Some could have an existing designated teacher(s) with a CCP go through the correct training for a bonus in pay.
And some of course would have the freedom to say we won't have guns in schools because that approach is keeping everybody safe.
The concept is freedom to choose. I don't think the Federal Government, nor the Federal Department of Education (nearly useless Dept anyways) should mandate any rules, but they should allow the schools to practice protecting their children in the ways they know best. It's about freedom to choose.
And when schools will say all they need is a bigger "Gun Free Zone" sign, and make some kind of name badge rule for the building (who could bypass this fortress of security?), and the parents think this is ridiculous, I believe the parents and community should have the right with the board of directors to change that rule.
And if parents don't want an armed guard in the school, they should have the right to change that as well. Hopefully it wouldn't take a tragedy to change their minds though about the bigger and brighter "Gun Free Zones".
Now, getting the payment and choice out of the way, here's what I find interesting. That some would complain about the added cost (if any) of having some sort of armed security in the building, while not a peep would occur from other Federal programs like free school lunch, AND free school breakfast DAILY. Neither would they complain about additional costs that school sports may rack up. Do you know how much is spent on sports? I'm not talking about jerseys and pads, I'm talking about gymnasiums, stadiums, track and field, swimming pools.... for a portion of the students that will actually use them.
And one of the major obstacles of adding a security measure for our kids is the cost?
Those very same people screaming to spend money "for the children" are somehow choosing to object this sole security measure.
:ne_nau:
I gotta tell ya Matt, you need to drop a few lbs. but your tan is looking good.:mrgreen:Quote:
Originally Posted by mattandersao
p.s.--don't point them things at ya, bro. Bad things could happen--yo..
I'm done here for a bit, I gotta go find some of dem assault bullets
Thank you!!! Thats what I was trying to say I dont trust many of my peers! Which raises the question how do we pay for a full time PROFESSIONAL (whether it be a police officer or a well trained employee of yours). When the state has a hard time paying to keep up with growth in the school systems I dont see how they will add many new police officers without gnashing of teeth and such from the Utah taxpayer. Fortunately for Utah as has been mentioned most middle schools (where I work) and high schools have a resource officer paid 1/2 by the school system, and 1/2 by police departments.Quote:
Originally Posted by BruteForce
For the record... I'm also not in favor of just arming anyone to protect our schools. I assumed we were using the NRA's standard of "trained", whatever that turns out to be in the end.... and I don't believe a hunters safety card and a CCP is going to make the grade.
:2gun:
EXACTLY^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Just wanted to chime in and say that I am thoroughly enjoying the conversation and have learned a great deal. :2thumbs:
The NRA comes through with a plan!
Attachment 62176
Okay, finally back. I've stayed away from this discussion on purpose, having a kindergarten aged child has made this I tough on me. Why? Because I'm completely convinced no matter what I, or anybody else says will ever change any persons opinion. This country suffers an addiction to pride, and not the good kind. I'm a firm believer of the second amendment. I own many firearms, some are considered assault weapons. ever since the shooting at Columbine, I have believed that schools should have totally overhauled their security policies. I think America did not want to admit, that our culture is has become such, to warrant this. people often contest what a teacher or guard can do against someone like these crazed gunman. But it doesn't take a lot of common sense, to see that these people target places where they will have no or limited opposition, I don't know about you, but if these people think they can't commit their act of infamy successfully, it seems the mass majority of them won't try it in the first place. mentally ill or not these gunman still are smart enough to target gun free zones. and those gun free zones created by our own culture, have become an invitation for infamy. there is so much more at the route of this problem, the lack of and the culturally vilifying of discipline, the vilifying of God, and much more can share the blame in this and other incidents. there are so many who champion humankind to evolving to something greater than relying on a higher power, but not too long ago the belief in that higher power and more so fear of that higher power, contributed to the prevention of these type of incidences. after 911 so many quickly and blindly supported the Patriot Act, and now the same is happening with the second Amendment, in so much that they are willing to take the most powerful tool that gave this nation its freedom and simply rape it. George Washington believed that this nation's civilian population, should have the right to arm itself with comparable weapons to it's own military. it is my believe that the second Amendment is the last vestige of power Americans have that give them the power over government, taking it away or raping it is an insult to those fought using that same power to give us our freedom. it is my God given right to defend myself, no matter how lawful or unlawful that statement is or becomes, that is what I will always believe, and how I will conduct myself. As for assault weapons, of fraction of 1 percent are ever used criminally, but alcohol on the other hand has a much higher margin of abuse, and murder. But because it is so widely used, and economically important you won't see banning it, even fractionally as much as you would with a gun discussion. I apologize for the punctuation I did this from my phone.
Welcome to the discussion.
Keep a close eye on your shoulder thing that goes up--they want these banned......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...;v=9rGpykAX1fo
You can have my shoulder thing that goes up when they remove it from my cold, hairy shoulder!!!
Thing kinda hurts anyway
Hey guys...I know this is serious business, but I've been laughing my ass off and really enjoying the conversation. This site is awesome, I love it.
MTP, nice to see you chime in too.
Oh well....in the event of the zombie apocalypse, these sissy freaks will be the first on the dinner table. Then we wouldn't have to put up with them any longer.
I wonder if codepink and other gun control advocates are so ignorant that they think when and if gun control measures are passed, gun owners will quietly and peacefully abide. The military has in itself a large population of NRA membership. And I have to give it to Clinton, the man successfully passed gun control measures, but he also was able to maintain a decent level of partisanship, unlike Obama who has polarized and devided this country to the likes it hasn't known since the civil war. The fiscal cliff is a perfect example, as conservatives offer concessions, he has yet to bring any of his own. if these anti gun groups want to continue down this road of ignorance, they'll be sorely surprised of where it leads. But maybe they only care really care about the blood shed of the ones that believe the way they do, perhaps a dead to them the only good conservative is a dead one, and the quicker the better and decrease the surplus population. Then again if they kill all of us who will pay for their free health care?
I said it before, and I'll say it again, this nation is going to see it's second Browns Ferry, we're way to devided. It would be terribly ironic if those who sought to make this country safer through their own ignorance, ended up with the complete opposite effect. We are not as stupid as the media has brainwashed you to believe, we know the killing them softly tactic, and it will not work in America as it did in Canada and Australia.
Do I really believe all this could happen, I hope and pray not, but I have seen some concerning things as of late, pro second amendment and civilian malitia folks are closing their Facebook accounts to get off the grid. And on tip of that I have an uneasy feeling that doesn't seam to go away. That same feeling has always been fooled by negative events of some sort. I've always had an uncanny intuition about things, and for once hope that I am wrong.
As I have have watched guns and ammunition sale at record rates this past week I understood what was happening... these people are stock piling so they have the ability to defend the freedoms granted to them in the bill of rights. They are not going to surrender or compromise those rights without a fight.
Sent using Tapatalk
I've been surfing around looking specifically at liberal sites, reading the comments posted. Forget the freaks in the media, I want to know what real people think about this...
I'm surprised to see, even among the most liberal articles, the comments are mostly pro ownership. I'm trying to find someone with a reasonable reason to back their anti gun ideas....and I really can't find one. I really think there must be a psychological definition for fear of guns...like fear of the dark, or spiders, etc...I've always considered that these people who scream the loudest about this, have this affliction...they get physically ill at the sight of a gun.
Things like "Our schools shouldn't have guards because it will intimidate and distract the kids". What? It seems to me that it would "intimidate and distract" anyone bent on ill intent. C'mon...can't they do better than that?
It seems that we're all in agreement around here. I'd really love to hear some anti gun advocate really bring something with some meat on it...I can't find it. If anyone can post something they propose that makes one go "Hmmm..." then put it up and let's examine it.
Too bad all these knuckleheads give us is criticism about alien shoulder mounted cannons. Obviously, that woman actually believes those things exist! And she's a member of Congress...yikes.
Folks on the ends of the "gun" bellcurve will often have a fair amount ignorance about each other. Its an interesting thing. I'm a fairly liberal gun owner, and, have friends on the extreme ends of this debate. Some can't even have a rational discussion about it at all before it boils up into an emotional name calling deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron
I think most of the folks I know who are very anti gun, will use this to further their cause. Yeah, they're hugely ignorant about firearms (heck, some even refer to "magazines" as "clips"...har har). They hate the gun culture and the embracement of violence and see adding more people with guns in schools as a really bad idea. I did get a kick out of the "put teachers in gun stores" response.
Brownells sells 3.5 years’ worth of magazines in 72 hours.
http://www.guns.com/2012/12/20/brown...s-in-36-hours/
Interesting article on what is happening in retale. Last Wednesday I tried to find some S&W magazines for some of the custom pistols my dad builds and sells. There were none to be had anywhere in the country. Brownell's is one of our usual suppliers.
Crazy stuff. Legislation should take months, and, even years, if the will for it is sustainable at all (and it may not be, given the timing of the election cycle). Law of supply and demand.
After the 1994 ban expired, there was a brief rush, and, after the last couple election cycles, a bit of a rush, then, the supply outstripped the demand. Prior to a couple weeks ago, there was a glut and the prices especially for an AR or mags, which were both plentiful, were at a fairly low level and you could get just about anything.
Be interesting to watch. Amazing economics in play for sure.
Some interesting stuff:
JG Shipping Info - Thursday December 20, 2012
We want to wish all of you a Merry Christmas. We hope you have a wonderful time with friends and family and are richly blessed this season.
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Cheaper than dirt = out of stock, out of stock, out of stock...
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2-MGASC223-20RD-AL-G
ASC AR-15 Magazine .223/5.56 20 Rounds Aluminum Gr...
$11.69
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2-MGASC223-20RD-SS
ASC AR-15 Magazine .223/5.56 20 Round Stainless Bl...
$14.63
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http://cdn1.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_...-30RD-AL-G.jpg
2-MGASC223-30RD-AL-G
ASC AR-15 Magazine 5.56 NATO 30 Round Anti-Tilt ...
$12.43
http://www.bogley.com/forum/images/p...ofStockBtn.jpg
http://cdn1.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_...23-30RD-SS.jpg
2-MGASC223-30RD-SS
ASC AR-15 Magazine .223/5.56 NATO 30 Round Stainle...
$15.03
http://www.bogley.com/forum/images/p...ofStockBtn.jpg
PK Firearms is suspending all online and telephone orders until Further Notice. We will update as we know more. It will definitely be after Christmas and most likely after the New Year. Please don't bother to call the Shop unless it pertains to an FFL License or Warranty Issues. Thanks for your business, and we appreciate your understanding. Merry Christmas
EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY
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And yet--even he who screams the loudest and willing to fund a ban, personally,STILL has no clue.:facepalm1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=w8es6M_9HKk
I just got done cleaning and fully loading every gun and clip I have. Not really sure why, but mostly just because I can and wanted to. Also came to wonder if the Ruger 10/22's aren't the gun of choice?
So, when you are arguing for the reason to ban 30 rd magazines, maybe your argument might hold more weight if you held up a magazine and YOU weren't breaking the law!!!! 30 rd magazines are BANNED in Washington DC. The ban seems to be working well.
[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]
I own a high powered pellet gun that has a side load plastic 12 load clip. Guess I better go bury that one also
What a fu**ing moron. Like I said earlier, I keep waiting for one of these people to say something reasonable...and they say WE'RE the ones with our heads in the clouds?Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
cnn is on it!!!!
looks like obama will go to any length to get his message out. Now it appears he has adopted biden
President Obama Sets January Deadline For Gun Proposals(CNN) -- The nation will have a set of recommendations to address widespread gun violence within weeks, President Obama announced Wednesday.
Vice President Joe Obama will lead an inter-agency group to come up with "concrete proposals no later than January -- proposals that I then intend to push without delay," the president said.
Washington D.C. police investigating whether NBC moderator violated lawQuote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
Posted by
CNN producer Larry LazoWashington (CNN) – Washington Metropolitan Police Department is investigating whether NBC’s David Gregory violated D.C. gun laws when he displayed what he described as a 30 round magazine as part of an interview during Sunday’s “Meet the Press.”
“So here’s a magazine for ammunition that carries 30 bullets. Now isn’t it possible that if we got rid of these, if we replaced them and said well, you can only have a magazine that carries five bullets or ten bullets, isn’t it just possible that we could reduce the carnage in a situation like Newtown?” show moderator Gregory asked Wayne LaPierre, the executive vice president of the National Rifle Association.
It’s not known whether the magazine Gregory had in his hand was authentic or a prop. D.C. police spokeswoman Gwen Crump told CNN the department is investigating the matter and would have no further comment at this time.
Possessing a large capacity ammunition device, such as a magazine, isillegal in the District of Columbia if the device holds more than 10 rounds of ammunition. The code also specifies the large devices are illegal regardless of whether or not they're attached to a firearm. Gregory showed the magazine Sunday without a firearm attached.
NBC’s studios, from which “Meet the Press” is broadcast, are located within city limits. The network did not respond to CNN’s requests for comment.
In the wake of the school shooting in Newtown, gun control advocates have been pushing for a limit on high capacity magazines. Such a restriction is one of the items President Barack Obama mentioned last week when he announced an administration effort to curb violence.
“I don’t believe that’s going to make one difference,” LaPierre told Gregory during the show.
Several conservative commentators first raised the issue of whether Gregory had broken D.C. law by using the magazine.
But if the guns are illegal the bad guys wont have them either so we'll all be happy
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2065toyota
:roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::r oflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::rof lol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflo l::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol: :roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::r oflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::rof lol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflo l::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol: :roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::r oflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::rof lol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflo l::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol: :roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::r oflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::rof lol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflo l::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol: :roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::r oflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::rof lol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflo l::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol: :roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::r oflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::rof lol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflo l::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol: :roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::r oflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::rof lol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflo l:
Good one. I think that was the funniest thing I've seen on this forum all year....aside from that "Cat Hijack" thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
If we as a society decide to ban these weapons ONCE AND FOR ALL because it is a good idea for the future, then 100 yrs from now (if we are still here), it will have had a positive effect. I think a lot of folks using the argument that gun control measures "won't do anything" are working from a short term view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hank moon
Still seems like squinting at an ideal situation that is almost never going to happen.
Banning assault rifles in the U.S. -- OK, I'm on board. I can see how that could happen. Hell, I almost agree with it.
Banning assault rifles in every nation of the world -- IMPOSSIBLE.
How are you going to enforce your ban on North Korea, China, Israel, Russia, etc, etc, etc? Good luck with that.
Short term??Quote:
Originally Posted by hank moon
Ever hear of the Bill of Rights??
Went into affect in 1791!!
Seems it has worked rather well for 221years....
The Bill of Rights are Amendments to the Constitution, to protect the rights of the "people".
Would love to see your documentation showing the ban of any particular weapon will have a "positive effect"
Once again--I would be glad to attach links if you are un familiar with the Bill of Rights.
clarification: my post refers only to a U.S. ban.Quote:
Originally Posted by rockgremlin
Heres the 2nd Amendment:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.