Would you forgive them, me and every other Mormon if I bought you lunch and spoke only of canyoneering and/or sports?
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Would you forgive them, me and every other Mormon if I bought you lunch and spoke only of canyoneering and/or sports?
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Originally Posted by Scott Card
No talking sex? :ne_nau:
Don't make me blush :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by tanya
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Originally Posted by Scott Card
:popcorn: OH.... but I love it! :nod:
doop de doop de doooo....... tra la la la laaaa.....not going there..... my aren't we having lovely weather? :haha:
I think I just saw the PM channels fill up with phone numbers going to tanya.Quote:
Originally Posted by tanya
On my mission I was pretty deterred when we visited a house filled with satanic ritual implements (alters, wild daggers, plenty of glass jars filled with who knows what).Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Card
So you could add that as a #11 on your list.
I'll make you an offer. Next time some overbearing missionary won't take no for an answer you can call me. I'll talk to him and tell him, "Look buddy, you're pissing this guy off. If you want to have a reason to get married, besides that it's a commandment, you'll want to walk away right now. Remember the part about 'multiply and replenish the earth?' The last missionary's testicle retrieval surgery was successful, but that's just because it was a glancing blow." Would that help?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamisJockey
Look at it this way, the first raindrop is just as responsible for the flood as the last, but nobody ever blames the first one. You're right, a polite "no thank you" should be plenty. If that doesn't work tell them you know plenty of Mormons and know where to go with your questions. If that doesn't work say, "Elder, contention is of the devil, but that's exactly what you're going to get if you keep trying to talk to me." If that doesn't work he gets what he deserves. Heck, I'll beat on him for you. I despise that kind of missionary too.
Best "go away" I ever got was a guy who said, "I couldn't be Mormon, I believe in pre-marital sex."Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Card
Just then his girlfriend busted out the door in a huff and said, "Yah, but he doesn't practice what he preaches."
It was really hard to supress the laughter as we stumbled away.
Done...and that is a good one. I remember a few of those folks too... dead chickens, blood on the porch... a zillion lit candles... crazed Manson look in their eye...yep, stayed away myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewhaha
Ya, you are correct. "No Thank you" should be enough. and BTW, I wasn't trying to be smug or a jerk with the lunch invite. I was serious, bring a friend or two, my treat. If not lunch, come to freezefest and me and some friends will feed you dinner sans religion. Man, life is too short to be a jerk and according to my reading of the bible, nothing really matters except how I treat others and how I act according to my values. Sorry for the religious comment but that is my credo.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamisJockey
I couldn't agree more. I completely understand how frustrating it could be to live in Utah and not be Mormon. I have a very good friend who has just moved down to St. George to be with her lesbian partner. I know that being non-mormon and gay in Utah would be especially difficult because a lot of people who are Mormon are just plain ignorant. I just feel like Utah is the wrong place to be bad mouthing Mormons.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamisJockey
I understand that people might want to be here for the cool stuff Utah has to offer, or maybe they come here for work. Being the religious minority is just part of the experience. I stand by what I said before about Utah being the "Mormon Mecca" or "Mormon Vatican". If there is any place in the world that Mormons should not be persecuted, it should be here. I think if you hate Mormons, Utah is just not the place for you. And again that is not to say you should just leave if you aren't Mormon. I just think you shouldn't live in an area where you hate the majority of the people.
Ben Folds has a song that says "You don't know what it's like being Male, Middle Class, & White" referring to the legal, and acceptable discrimination that takes place in America. As you may have noticed this song really resonates with me, because it does tick me off that it has gotten to the point in our country where you can only exclude the majority.
Bad mouthing Mormons in Utah (as a stereotype) is just as bad as bad mouthing people who aren't Mormon in Utah, or anyone else for that matter. I don't think that either side is perfect, I just think that both sides need to be more understanding of the other (like in most conflicts).
Wow.
First, let me congratulate you all on a very civil, very intelligent dialogue. I actually sat here and read the whole thing and am impressed. I enjoy a good debate and banter. It seems that some of you dont, though, as there are a few who have to keep throwing in strange comments to divert the discussion or make light or try to discontinue. Lock the thread? Why would you want to do that? No one has been insulted or personally attacked and it sounds like a respectful conversation to me.
Oh, and there is so much I could comment on, but I dont know where to begin.... I came in too late to backtrack. I'll keep an eye on the conversation and pipe in when I can from now on.
Suffice to say, I think the jist of this topic is about annoying missionaries, and that does NOT have to be Mormon specific. I agree with Jamis Jockey, "No thank you, I'm not interested" SHOULD be enough. Immaturity may play into it, but hey, they're ALL 19 (or most, anyway), what do you expect? I think they need to be trained better. Pushiness does more harm for any group's image than anything else.
I dont think this topic could be anything but heated since everyone at one time seems to have dealt with pushy missionaries of one sort or another. Living off in another country (wyoming) where the mormons are not the majority most of my friends are not momons. One of my best friends before he moved was the local seventh day adventist minister, of which I had many discussions about religion. My massage therapist- another best friend - is a very devout southern baptist, of whom I'd do anything for. She has nearly the same beliefs as I do - but I'm not looking to convert anyone that is not looking for it...I think THAT is the problem of most any religions' ministry reps...they(the people they approach) are not ready, do not want to hear it, or don't care. ' A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still' - The 'mormon' population is /can be hard to deal with at times...part of why I havent moved back to Utah -YET....and I am a mormon.
There is only one phone number I want. :nod:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombeech
OK, Tanya, it's on its way... :haha:
First off, like TreeHugger, I'm really enjoying this thread. Good discussion - nothing needs locking here!
I figure that's all that matters, too. In fact, it's how I try to live my life also. (Only difference is, I don't expect reward or punishment at the end. So I guess the discipline to remain on the straight and narrow - besides the law - is purely internal.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Card
One of the really tough things with religion is this:
If you really, truly, wholeheartedly believe that your belief system is correct, and that your faith is the only way to not spend the rest of eternity in a state of permanent separation from God, and hence all that is good, then it only makes sense to try to convince everyone that you come across who does not share that belief of the error of their ways. It's imperative - how could you not be moved by the tragedy, the monstrosity, of so many people being damned? (So, how many people have I just convinced to go on missions?)
Only problem is, we don't all subscribe to the same beliefs. It become a case of dueling theisms - hey wait, that sounds familiar...
Answers? Dunno. I'll just keep trying to treat others well, and act according to my values...
Trust me...we've been down that road. :naughty:Quote:
Originally Posted by tanya
:lol8: Yeah, some good laughs though... :roll: :haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by PunchKing
Sorry Tanya, I asked Liza and she says I can't give it to you! But I tried.Quote:
Originally Posted by tanya
Why do you choose to open up and read this thread? Just pass on by and ignore it. Nothing wrong with a good discussion/debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by PunchKing
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Originally Posted by TreeHugger
BINGO!! That just won the quote of the day...a close second was Greyhair biker's quote: "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."
:five:
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Originally Posted by Cirrus2000
is this the reason for missions, official or casual (beyond understanding one's own convictions)? i mean i could see that this would be the commonly quoted answer, and while great to an idealistic degree and fundamentally altruistic in nature, i can't help but scrutinize and submit that there is a largely selfish aspect to it, that by conversion one hopes to preserve "the" moral thread of society, at least the moral thread as defined through one's particular religious philosophy.
i think this is the aspect which offends most ... as it has the haughty appearance (and depth) that there is only one route to "salvation" or to moral preservation, when concurrently there seems to be so many different religions ultimately trying to preserve many of the same fundamental principles. moreover, i think there are many VERY religious people who also see faults in some of the primary/secondary/tertiary principles held and promoted by organized religions, and to some degree each person does some picking and choosing. does this make them bad people ... NO. is it heresy, technically probably yes, but then again, we're only human ... the usual rationalization .... on the other hand if someone chooses not to believe in god, but still embodies the ideal of being a good person to others, doing good in the world and donating their time to those in need, i am sure many religious folk would still denigrate this person ... as lacking reverence towards god and a road to salvation (or whatever the ultimate religious terminus may be) ... IMO this judgment is unreasonable and verges on moral totalitarianism.
we all need to share this world and respect each other. while i think it's reasonable to argue and debate those issues which lend themselves to such dialogue, in many ways religion inherently is not one of them. while many religious people see it unreasonable to scrutinize and debate the tenets of a specific religion, i believe under the very same reasoning that it shouldn't be proactively pushed upon anyone.
and, naturally i believe anyone is free to believe otherwise ...