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Wow...amazing story.
CCP #'s for Utah (as required by the Brady Bill):
411,604 Total Valid Permits as of December 31, 2012
http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/2012Q4.pdf
Utah has nearly a 2% denial rate for firearms transfer.
Revocation of CCP in 2011 spiked to 1046 and was only 391 in 2012. Interesting to ponder why.
Suspensions on the steady rise...779 in 2011 and 1034 in 2012.
I'm not sure what part you find amazing?
That the current system is working? That we have 400K+ concealed carry permit holders? That booze, drugs and wife beatings don't mix well with firearms?
I do find it note worthy that 15% of the Utah's total population (2,855,287) has a concealed carry permit. Once you exclude those under 21 and those who are not allowed to carry that means approximately 30% of Utah's population that is allowed to have a CCP already has one. That's a lot of firepower, I'm pretty sure my neighborhood is better armed than many small countries. It also makes it easy to see why Utah is so gun friendly. Just better hope that Draper 5th Ward doesn't decide to go to war with Draper 3rd Ward.... hahaha....
:popcorn:
Amazing that an "innocent bystander" had the moxy to not shoot the guy with the knife!Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Not common to find someone with that cool a head. A - M - A - Z - I - N - G.
Yeah, given that a huge percentage of the gen pop already has a CCP, does make one wonder about the need for a "constitutional carry".
Yeah, current system seems ok. So...why change it?
Plenty of not-so-saavy folks out there...
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=24055581
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=5827833
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=5293638
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10164697
Gotcha... I was trying to fit the amazing to the brady report.
I have no problem with Utah's current gun laws. I do understand the governor's if its not broke why fix it approach. I also didn't realize how much of Utah's population was already permitted to carry until I did the math.
Some of this is just backlash to Obama. The Democrats are going to pay dearly for this hardline gun control approach over the next few years. They will probably do as much harm as they do good.
Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
They have in the past, absolutely. Which is why the 1994 bill expired without a glimmer. They kinda learned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Now I wonder if the tide has turned a bit. Folks see these whacko's with guns for what they are: whackos. The best propaganda for why folks shouldn't have firearms is a pro rally on most states capitol steps...just look at 'em. Angry, spoutin' off about tyranny, need these assault weapons and high cap mag's to protect from the gov't. Outside looking on for most these folks just seem delusional and silly.
I guess my point is ardent firearms supporters don't come across very well to mainstream folks either, in spades. Comment I heard last weekend in Idaho I got a kick out of: "what about my right to not be intimidated by gun owners?" This from a Desert Storm vet. Some of its just a culture of guns thing. Guns gone wild. Maybe its starting to run its course?
Nationally, there's been a steady decline of gun ownership in the U.S. 50% in the 70's and down to 35% or so now? My bet is that hunting has followed this trend too.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/31/politi...ship-declining
Kinda like the "Moral Majority"...(which was neither...ha ha). When you start losing numbers, you come across as angry crackpots, toss in a few huge tragedies, then voila, suddenly your Colorado.
Nationally, I don't see this going much anywhere in congress.
I would love to see this happen, this is a major player.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/21...icut-amid-gun/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
Lots of interesting info in that document. Didn't know a dishonorable discharge makes one ineligible to purchase a firearm.
How many Utah CCW are issued to out-of-state persons? My understanding is that the Utah CCW is popular in other states, because it has the widest cross-acceptance in other states. So that 411k does not represent holders in Utah.
Tom :moses:
I think they changed who can get a Utah issued CCP:Quote:
Originally Posted by ratagonia
Non-resident proof of permit. If you reside in a state that recognizes the validity of the Utah CFP or has reciprocity with Utah, you must obtain a CFP or CCW from your home state and submit a copy of it with your application for a Utah permit. For a list of reciprocal states click here. Residency will be determined by your state-issued identification. If your state does not recognize the Utah permit this does not apply.
That slowed down the out-of-state flow. Was costing the state a ton to process folks...
The governor just vetoed the constitutional carry bill.
Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
A dishonorable discharge is a big deal as you also lose your right to vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by ratagonia
Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
Quid pro quo, Clarise...Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fyYlZ7ZDa8
This has only been a law for a year or two, tens of thousands of permits were issued before that which I'm sure are still valid and account for a huge percentage of total permit holders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
Are you sure it cost the state a ton to process? I'm pretty sure the state was enjoying a windfall profit...which was the reason NV and NM severed their reciprocity agreement; which caused the Utah permit to be less viable and forced the legislature to do something about it.
And remember--registration is NEVER about confiscation!
http://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_22846...ad-author-says
Looks like a special session to override the governor's veto of Constitutional Carry will happen in May, might happen as early as April.
Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
What irratates me about this whole deal is the fact that consessions were made to allow this to be palatable to the gov. For the special session, can they bring back the original bill without the consessions? I never did like the idea of carrying a concealed firearm unloaded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
In rare bipartisan support of the 2nd amendment the US Senate just passed a bill opting the US out of the UN Arms Treaty.
Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
Ahh...you might be right. I think the initial permit wasn't costing as much as they thought it would, but, the re-up was costing more. Something like that. They lowered the price for the intial permit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandstone Addiction
Technically, I'm guessing it was an amendment to "S.CON.RES.8".Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
53 -46. 7 Democrats voted for it. Not huge bipartisan support, but, enough. 4:30am? Geez, makin' sausage at that hour? Nutty.
Interesting to note that US Senator Mike Lee introduced an amendment that would "...create a point of order against legislation that would further restrict the right of law-abiding Americans to own a firearm." Didn't pass 3/5 majority.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...3:SC00008:@@@S
:eek2: That was actually part of a law? I was involved in a conversation where quite a few didn't carried one chambered. What the hell is the sense and you should have heard some of the answers :facepalm1:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandstone Addiction
Unloaded under Utah law means you can't have one in the chamber. And honestly, with Joe Six-pack I don't see where this is a bad thing, racking the slide isn't going to make any difference. If someone wants to carry loaded the Utah CCP is still easily avaiable. The only part of this that ticks me off is the "unloaded" was added to make the bill exceptable to the governor, yet he still vetoed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JP