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So...the solution is? All people who grew up in fatherless homes aren't allowed access to firearms? Probably not that practical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Hippa privacy versus keeping firearms out of the hands of the mentally ill?
Have to be 21 to buy a (any) firearm?
Mental health professionals tied into a national database to see if someone has a firearm?
Registration?
I don't know. How to prevent this stuff?
Interesting push on the Utah legislation hill to urge parents to lock up their guns to prevent their kids from using them to commit suicide...
Meme everythingQuote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
It's all thats left when people are incapable of reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkHammergate
Or incapable of putting forth a cogent thought...
More memes, please!...We meat headed, he-man woman haters just love 'em!
Seems to me that the "solution" to these freaks going off the rails is simple...unfortunately, it appears that "see something, say something" is useless.
I'm tired of my social media newsfeeds filled with "It's all Trump's fault" garbage. I'm honestly not a Trump the man lover but, how can you blame him? Obama had the Presidency and control of the House and Senate for what, a good 4 years and he didn't ban any guns or put in a dent in gun control, yet it's all Trump's fault. Silly. I guess it's just a way for folks to lash out.
The FBI is also taking a beating over this... but in their case some of it is probably deserved.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...-blunders.html
My response to my anti-gun friends who keep posting on facebook to ban AR15 style weapons is, "then what?". They all seem to think that banning this type of firearm will stop mass shootings. My response to that is, "you do know that most mass shootings in the US have happened with handguns, right?". And of course they seem to think all mass shootings historically happen with AR's when in fact it's less than half. So, they ban AR's. Mass shootings continue, then all semi-auto weapons are banned. Then what? Only the methods to mass killings will change (and we all know that even if guns are banned if someone wants one bad enough, they'll get one). Again, I try to point out to them that they are concentrating on the how instead of the why. Until the why is fixed these horrific events will keep happening.
FWIW - Black rifles are used in less than 2% of all crimes, while handguns are used in just over 80% of all crimes.
So banning handguns should be the logical attack from the left. Except for the simple fact that SCOTUS has already ruled you can't ban handguns as it violates the 2nd Amendment.
Yep. Even knives and other cutting instruments, hands, fists and feet are used in more murders BY FAR than all rifles combined.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceaxe
Yep. My facebook has turned into a minefield of emotions and bull crap. That's on both sides of the issue, BTW. I think I'll do something more productive with my time instead.
I've been thinking about this and the only way to really stop this type of mass shooting/terrorist attack is to harden our soft targets. Anything else is just pissing in the wind as the terrorists will just find another weapon.
The discussion should be about what method we chose to harden the targets, not about which weapon we chose to arm the terrorist with. But none of this will ever happened because our politicians don't really want to solve the problem, they would prefer to use the problem to bash the opposition in the next election (see immigration reform for another example).
https://pics.esmemes.com/means-this-...e-20197711.png
This isn't a gun problem, this is a lack of parenting issue coupled with mental health/drugs. If parents would actually raise their kids as parents and not as best friends, then a good chunk of this would disappear.
Additional points already made:
-Violence on TV
-Violence in video games
-Lack of parenting
-Emotionally detached people
Parents, get your adult aged children out of the basement. Ban violent video games (my kids never were allowed to play GTA, etc). Teach your kids gun safety (taught my kids starting at 8 years old), teach emotional intelligence and apathy.
How about we get to the core of the issue?
It's just way easier to make some emotionally charged memes and videos and splash them all over the internet. That way people focus on the symptoms of the problem and ignore the root of it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by BruteForce
My niece is currently freaking out over this. She's shared over 100 videos and memes on facebook since Wednesday saying that guns are evil and Trump is a racist that hates teenagers and wants them all dead. I have avoided the temptation to ask her what she's going to do about the AR-15 (and many other guns) and all of the ammunition that's sitting in her basement inside her dad's gun safe.
Attachment 89019Quote:
Originally Posted by devo_stevo
Parenting and the values learned at home are an influence, that's for sure. Unfortunately, there's a lot of single parents out there and, they have their hands full trying to provide and parent.Quote:
Originally Posted by BruteForce
Funny...you point out violence on TV and video games...yet, your bogley handle of "BruteForce" and your avatar would indicate you don't practice what you preach yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by BruteForce
Yeah, we're a violent, gun society. We tend to reap what we sow.
Core of the issue? What is the "core of the issue"?
You might have something with the "emotionally detached people". How do we get people to care about others?
We had an interesting lunch table discussion on this briefly today...(loud enough that it raised a few eyebrows).
A lot of solutions proposed still wouldn't prevent a lot of these tragedies. We kind of all just gave up on finding a solution...
I dunno. Genie is out of the bottle. Tough to stuff back in.
My kids all range in age between 10 - 16, and they all play "violent video games." Have for years. And I play right along side them. We play Halo and Gears of War together. And we talk openly about the topics of the day. I highly doubt that any of them will be mowing down first graders with an AR during their lifetimes.
Video games are not the reason why Sandy Hook or any other school shooting has taken place. Get a grip.
A few comments from one of my favorite comedian/magicians, Penn Gillette:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9ukt0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_EKdcxQhT4
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My two boys are well adjusted and doing quite well, thank you. As for myself, I earned my handle and weapons qualification the only fashioned way: US Army. :2thumbs:Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
....
Quote:
Originally Posted by hank moon
I used to think this quote was stupid. But now I kinda like it.
So when are you guys going to change you minds so we can get shit done my way?!?
[emoji106]
@Scott P, I looked into this and it was established as part of the 1968 Gun Control Act.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott P
The ages were purely arbitrary, but the reasoning behind 21 for handguns is because they are used in more than 70% of all crimes.
The big problem I see with 21 required for black rifles is there is no way to define them, the 1994 assault weapon ban proved that as the manufacturers just engineered their way around any description established. Kind of like trying to define porn.
While I'm not OK with giving up my AR or banning future AR purchases (because i believe banning them won't stop one future mass killing spree from happening) I would be OK with a few restrictions or changes to current law. I understand you might not be OK with anything on my list and that's fine, too. It's just my thoughts.
- Ban bump stocks
- Restrict magazine size to 20. I know, I know. Confiscating existing 30 round (or larger) magazines would be an impossible task as there are literally millions of them out there. Plus, it would create a huge under-the-table market for existing ones and the price would be sky-high.
- Increase the age to legally purchase any firearm to at least 21 and maybe even 25, with an exemption clause for any military or ex-military members without any red-flag mental health issues on their record.
For what it's worth, California has strict laws banning the AR-15... the black rifles below are still legal in CA... which just proves the point they are difficult to outlaw....
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/w...ck-660x222.jpg
https://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/...Solution-2.jpg
https://www.thetrace.org/wp-content/...s_15_2-tfb.jpg
This is the only thought I might get behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by tallsteve
The Virginia Tech shooter did that with mostly 10 round magazines. He had 17 10 round mags and 2 15 round mags if I remember correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by tallsteve
There are some studies that suggest military and ex military are more prone to commit mass shootings. Here is a list of just military base shootings. https://www.ranker.com/list/military...ike-rothschildQuote:
Originally Posted by tallsteve
So now you want to infringe directly on the 2nd Amendment? Which other Amendments do you disagree with? There is nothing in the Constitution or Bill of Rights about these freedoms will save lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by tallsteve
:soapbox:
I still want to know why we need more gun laws when we don't enforce the gun laws already on the books?
To me that's just commonsense of where you should start, but we already know commonsense isn't nearly as common as you would hope.
I don't disagree with any of your responses. I'm just thinking ahead a bit. With all the mass hysteria going on right now, I'm guessing some concessions will need to be made and these are the things I could live with without feeling like I totally got screwed. And, yes, we definitely need to enforce the laws already on the books.
Maybe it's just a matter of waiting the hysteria out. It could all blow over. Until we have another mass shooting.
Immediately following every single catastrophic event, there is always a cry to "just do something"
Thats human nature, there is no one alive who wants/enjoys seeing the slaughter of people, except the mentally deranged.
The short term affects of "just do something" often come with long term consequences.
Any part of any "Right" that is relinquished, rarely comes back, on the contrary--the erosion of rights grows, as does the call to "just do something".
Liberty cannot and does not =security.
Security is unobtainable,the faux feeling of security begins with relinquishing rights to a government.
I don't disagree with any of this either but, this "cry to do something" this time around seems way bigger, vocal and more widespread than from any other event I can think of. I don't think it's going away anytime soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldno7
Then I'll jump in your camp if your certain, that what you are willing to give up, will make a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by tallsteve
If you are not certain that all you are willing to give up would make a difference then we would both be fools, wouldn't we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallsteve
It takes time. I understand the survivors of the latest shooting are meeting at the Capitol today to demand change. It most likely will not change anything significant.
This is a problem that will have to be resolved over generations of hardship, policy change, and public perception. It can't and won't be resolved overnight.