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I've also come to a conclusion for 2013........
Get out of the house as much as possible--Houses have been known to cause death!!
So for those keeping score:
Fiddlestick deaths-0
Staying at home deaths-2
It's all about the odds and being able to stack those in your favor.
Life is what you make of it--mitigate your risk and carry on.
When it's your time, theres much worse instruments of death than ropes/sticks and canyon's.
^^^THIS^^^
Tap'n on my Galaxy G3
Naw...not really. Warning that the activity is inherently dangerous...not the equipment. Big difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by ratagonia
Hope to see you at Jane's on the 21st?
OK, so what I am seeing is that nobody died from the Fiddlestick this year, despite all the dire predictions ....
There is another thread here where some people predict that people are going to get hurt doing guided rappels, too.
There is a Chicken Little phenomenon going on
Nah...people read these threads and become aware.Quote:
Originally Posted by deagol
I'm damn glad to not have to even ponder the concept of "I told you so."
The sky is falling the sky is falling...
True!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
Well I hope you like our Fiddlestick 101 video that will be published later tonight then. ;)
It explicitly says that "the device is inherently dangerous - if the stick is bumped, falls out, removed, slides out intentionally or unintentionally - the rappeller WILL fall".
-Brett
FTFYQuote:
Originally Posted by jman
2 things on this:
1- Polycarbonate becomes brittle with exposure to sunlight. There is no way I would keep this for longer than 1 year, especially in Utah. In fact, 7075 aluminum would be WAY better, IMO.
2- Seems that the stick is too long. Much more of a chance of getting pushed out from pressure against a rock, from how it looks. Of course, too short and it can fall out too.
Interesting and with potential uses. Bold to mass-manufacture this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oval
Not sure how much sunlight it will get, being inside my pack most of the time.
I have used sticks of different lengths, and the 9" UNIT seems about right to me. The location of the stick can be varied by placing the Stone Knot in the optimum place - there is a lot of room for placing the knot wherever. One of the considerations of knot location is to keep the Stick away from constrictions, slots and places that could possibly push it out.
Thank you for your comments. After you have done a couple hundred raps using the FiddleStick, your comments will be more valuable than they are now.
Tom
http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/The-b...ldness-Yiannis
Tom,
Are you going to offer Fiddlestick sunblock anytime soon ?
Hey, it's ok. I work with polycarbonate and other plastics on a daily basis. It's my profession. No need to use it at all to know what I know about plastics. I don't know if it is more scary that you don't care about brittleness factor of polycarbonate or that you try to negate any comments unless your product has been used.Quote:
Originally Posted by ratagonia
I haven't used YOUR product, but I do use polycarbonate on a daily basis and I see it fail from use in human weight applications. FAIL. I would never touch this. Just my opinion. Feel free to disregard or negate but my opinion on this plastic in this role is likely far more valuable than anything that has been said in this thread to this point.
I've had my stick for about nine months. I used it for the first time this past weekend. I would estimate that my stick has seen 45 minutes of sunlight. If, as Tom says, the FiddleStick spends most of the time in the pack, how much sunlight is too much sunlight?Quote:
Originally Posted by oval
Felicia
My heart dropped when I saw this thread bumped. I thought "it finally happened, I wonder who the poor sap was". I'd glad I was wrong!
For the record, building your house under a scary cliff with huge rocks overhead, and then being sad when said rock falls on your house and kills you, is an accurate analogy to using the fiddlestick. it's only a matter of time and gravity. I approve this comparison!
Edit: I would also like a "danger graph" of number of people who build their house under huge boulders and people who actually use the fiddlestick. We could get some interesting stats going :) Maybe using a fiddlesticks is even safer than smoking, playing in traffic, piercing your genitals? Curious minds want to know. It's definitely not safer than building your house under a huge boulder. At least we learned that in 2013....
I gotta disagree...
In fact, I think the Chicken Little thing RE the Fiddlestick is ridiculous.
The house under a rock face, that's a different story.
Back to the Fiddlestick: it's been said before, but the Smooth Operator is quite a bit stouter and has safety biners that hold it on for all but LAPAR. It does require a good amount of pull to release the knot, and It comes down pretty light when pulled and doesn't seem to get subjected to much force. This material also gets used in bullet resistant glass and doesn't sit in the sun for hours on end. It's only in the sun for as long as setting up and retrieving your rappel...
Really? Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by deagol
I think its a neat-o trick/device that should be employed by a very select group of folks, in very select circumstances. Not something that should be part of a standard canyoning "kit". Maybe the type of device thats talked about and seen around the campfire, late at night, in hushed tones. Produced from under the counter at a shop, only when requested after a person has been a bit vetted for saavy. Sold along side a rope or a pack, to be considered as something to have by a person just getting into the sport? Kinda like how bolt kits used to be sold (ha ha). Caveat emptor.
And, its good to have a little bit of push back and balance to the koolaid out there.
Inherently dangerous. That's what the tag says. Use it at your own risk I suppose. Its all good 'til it ain't.
On a side note, I thought some of the history of this little film was interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnp4kj5lLOU
Putting on my engineering hat...... Actually the hat was already on as I'm a structural engineer by trade and do this shit all day every day.....
It's a lot more then hours in the sun......Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicia
Time-to-failure of polymers, and the actual failure mode, are influenced by stress, temperature, processing history, molecular weight, aging, exposure to solvents, yada, yada.....
Ballistic glass (bullet resistant glass) is a different animal for many reasons. Ballistic glass is usually harmed by exposure to solvents, temperature and UV radiation (sunlight). The polycarbonate layer that makes up the ballistic glass is normally sandwiched between layers of tinted glass. The tinted glass (think of the lens in your sunglasses) offers protection from 99% of UV radiation.Quote:
Originally Posted by deagol
When ballistic glass works (is hit by a bullet) it actually fails, but by design it fails in a controlled and predictable manner. When a polymer fiddlestick fails it will not be controlled or predictable.
FWIW: If I were in the habit of using a fiddlestick mine would be made of aluminum flat bar. That instantly eliminates many of the concerns with the polymer fiddlestick. You can purchase the required aluminum bar for a couple of bucks at Home-Depot or Lowes.
YMMV
Cocky-Locky... head man, supervisor, chicken inspector.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in SLC
:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:
Hopefully no one is shooting bullets at Fiddlesticks....
The only point about the material is its pretty strong for pretty light weight. It doesn't need to stop bullets.
Items other than the Fiddlestick and Smooth Operator that are made of Polycarbonate:
- Lenses for eyeglasses and safety glasses
- Climbing helmets
- Industrial face shields
- Police riot shields
- Windshields for small vehicles
- The cockpit canopy of the F22 fighter jet
Interesting to note how all the items you listed are designed to fail upon impact (of varying degrees) in a controlled and predictable manner.Quote:
Originally Posted by hank moon
:cool2: