Leave me alone!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stefan

maybe the missionaries need a number on their back which says ... "how's my prosetylizing? call 1-800-LDS-MSRY"

---

Oh they have that already. It's called "Every member a mission president."

Seems like people have a lot of beef with LDS missionaries. I'll have to admit that I have a lot of beef with the Mormon culture. The "Missionary Mall" billboards in the UC drive me nuts. There was one that basically said "Resistance is futile; you will be assimilated." Thanks for selling god at 70 MPH. All religions are guilty(?) of this to one degree or another. A religion that doesn't claim to be correct at the exclusion of all others can't be trusted. Heck, even atheism says that.

That said, here's my beef with the other point of view. Ask most people who are atheist or agnostic a question about morals and they'll say people should be free to think, say, and do what they want/feels good. Then a religious person comes along and thinks or says something about god and right/wrong and the atheist/agnostic gets their shorts in a wad. Which is it? Can we think and say what we want or can't we? If you want a definition of true hypocrisy that's it. That road goes both ways. I'm not saying that "do what you want" is how I think the world should work, because I don't. It's just that I think it's time the unreligious were judged by their double-standard for a change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by moabfool

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stefan

maybe the missionaries need a number on their back which says ... "how's my prosetylizing? call 1-800-LDS-MSRY"

---

Oh they have that already. It's called "Every member a mission president."

Seems like people have a lot of beef with LDS missionaries. I'll have to admit that I have a lot of beef with the Mormon culture. The "Missionary Mall" billboards in the UC drive me nuts. There was one that basically said "Resistance is futile; you will be assimilated." Thanks for selling god at 70 MPH. All religions are guilty(?) of this to one degree or another. A religion that doesn't claim to be correct at the exclusion of all others can't be trusted. Heck, even atheism says that.

That said, here's my beef with the other point of view. Ask most people who are atheist or agnostic a question about morals and they'll say people should be free to think, say, and do what they want/feels good. Then a religious person comes along and thinks or says something about god and right/wrong and the atheist/agnostic gets their shorts in a wad. Which is it? Can we think and say what we want or can't we? If you want a definition of true hypocrisy that's it. That road goes both ways. I'm not saying that "do what you want" is how I think the world should work, because I don't. It's just that I think it's time the unreligious were judged by their double-standard for a change.

---

AMEN!!! You should start a church Moabfool! :lol8:

Selling religion at 70 mph... :lol8: Great line! :2thumbs: Those damn billboards drive me nuts too!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by moabfool

That said, here's my beef with the other point of view. Ask most people who are atheist or agnostic a question about morals and they'll say people should be free to think, say, and do what they want/feels good. Then a religious person comes along and thinks or says something about god and right/wrong and the atheist/agnostic gets their shorts in a wad. Which is it? Can we think and say what we want or can't we? If you want a definition of true hypocrisy that's it. That road goes both ways. I'm not saying that "do what you want" is how I think the world should work, because I don't. It's just that I think it's time the unreligious were judged by their double-standard for a change.

---

The two issues you bring up, (1) a non-religious person believing that people should be free to do as they please, and (2) arguing against religious beliefs (presumably this is what you meant by getting "their shorts in a wad"), are not mutually exclusive. If I were to point out what I believed to be a flaw in your religious reasoning, that doesn't mean that I don't think you are still free to do/say/believe as you wish. I don't think I've ever heard an atheist or agnostic person tell a religious person that he or she should behave in a certain manner, as long as that behavior isn't harmful to others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Udink

I don't think I've ever heard an atheist or agnostic person tell a religious person that he or she should behave in a certain manner, as long as that behavior isn't harmful to others.

---

If we take that as our litmus test then what's the big deal with "In God We Trust" on our money, "One nation under God" in The Pledge of Allegence, and saying a prayer at public meetings. If a person doesn't believe it's true they can just sit there and not be harmed. A prayer is no more an establishment of religion that a political rally is an establishment of a government.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamisJockey

He did a great job of pointing out the hypocrisy.....you all expect me to listen to your little young clean shaven minions, but if someone else comes to your door, well....you saw how he was treated....

---

I live in Provo and about 12 miles south of me there is a Hare Krishna Temple (that the LDS church donated $$$ to help build). I went there and asked about their religion and I asked the woman why she converted and she got really mad at me. She accused me of "being a college student" working on a report, and said she wasn't going to be tricked. I honestly appreciate knowing about different cultures and religions. I find that as a Mormon, when I tell someone that I am Mormon but they are welcome to come in, they (usually Jehovah Witnesses) then don't want to enter (counting on me just inviting them in to argue, or convince them).

I have spent the last 6 summers in Alaska as a tour guide. I have met thousands of people who hate Mormons, based on being Mormon. Call me what you will but to me that is ignorance. I have dozens of friends who are non-denomination Christians and we discuss religion without it being a problem that we have different backgrounds.

Anyway, I have travelled all over the world, including a 2 year mission in Chile, where I feel like I did good things. I have always been respectful of other people's homes and feelings and I think others should do the same.

Utah is the home of the Mormons. Look, I'm not saying that if you aren't Mormon you aren't welcome here, but why would you move to Utah if you have a problem with Mormons? Everyone knows that Utah has been settled by Mormons and that it predominately is Mormon. If I had a problem with Catholics, I would not go to Boston (or more specifically the Vatican). I just don't see how you come to Utah and bad mouth Mormons. The whole reason Mormons came here was to get away from people who hated us.

Yes, Mormons can be awkward when dealing with non-Mormons but you're wrong if you don't think people are mistreated going both ways. I have had several salesmen come by my house in the last month. I didn't want what they were selling (nor did I even want them at my house), but I turned them away and went right back to what I was doing. Why can't you just do the same?

My brother loves Rocky Anderson (the Mayor of SLC) and the only reason my brother loves Rocky is because of how openly and how strong he (Rocky) goes after the Mormons. The Mormons already packed up and all moved to the same place once, they shouldn't have to do it again. If you don't like the people of Utah, you shouldn't be in Utah.


P.S. Needless to say, I'm tired of seeing so many people venting about Mormons on this site. There have been several good points brought up by people defending the Mormons and all you do is look past those and try and focus on something else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by moabfool

If we take that as our litmus test then what's the big deal with "In God We Trust" on our money, "One nation under God" in The Pledge of Allegence, and saying a prayer at public meetings. If a person doesn't believe it's true they can just sit there and not be harmed. A prayer is no more an establishment of religion that a political rally is an establishment of a government.

---

I agree with you, up to a point. I mean, none of those things really bother me, but if our government gives creed to one "God," shouldn't they do the same for all gods in general? Allowing one religious group (Christians, for example) to say a prayer during a city council meeting, yet not allowing Muslims to do the same, would in my opinion be harmful. Such government functions should not be exclusionary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiscGolfDivers

The Mormons already packed up and all moved to the same place once, they shouldn't have to do it again. If you don't like the people of Utah, you shouldn't be in Utah.

---

That seems to be a favorite saying among the majority religion around here. "If you don't like it, leave." However, the minority isn't calling for the Mormons to leave, they're just calling for the Mormons to leave them alone. There is a big difference in what the majority is pushing on the minority, and what the minority is asking from the majority.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Udink

Allowing one religious group (Christians, for example) to say a prayer during a city council meeting, yet not allowing Muslims to do the same, would in my opinion be harmful. Such government functions should not be exclusionary.

---

Look I don't know exactly what you believe our country was founded on but when the "Forefathers" got together to write the constitution they prayed together before they started. Sessions of Congress have always been started with prayers and we were established as a Christian country (research "Manifest Destiny" if you don't know what I'm talking about).

In the Constitution there is NO MENTION of "separation of church and state". That phrase came from a speech (that I believe Thomas Jefferson gave explaining there would be a "curtain of separation of Church and State).

We were guaranteed freedom of religion not from it! You can believe whatever you like but that doesn't mean that the Government will adapt your religion. You are exempt from praying if you don't wish, etc. but that is not the same thing as saying you have a right never to hear about religion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Udink

However, the minority isn't calling for the Mormons to leave, they're just calling for the Mormons to leave them alone. There is a big difference in what the majority is pushing on the minority, and what the minority is asking from the majority.

---

All the majority is asking for is respect. When you start to bad mouth the majority, that is when the majority no longer wants you. In this conversation all I have done is stick up for my beliefs. I have not attacked anyone else. That is a big difference between the majority and the minority.

I think that the LDS church should take advice from Athiests. That would be great. :lol8:

I like grapes.....especially the seedless kind. :five:

Karate-Chop

Somebody lock this crap thread!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sombeech

I think that the LDS church should take advice from Athiests. That would be great. :lol8:

---

I think if 'Beech or Scott knocked on my door all dressed in their missionary clothes I would invite :gents: them in..... I may not let them leave though. Life can be dangerous for a missionary! :bath:

Quote:

---

Utah is the home of the Mormons. Look, I'm not saying that if you aren't Mormon you aren't welcome here, but why would you move to Utah if you have a problem with Mormons? Everyone knows that Utah has been settled by Mormons and that it predominately is Mormon. If I had a problem with Catholics, I would not go to Boston (or more specifically the Vatican). I just don't see how you come to Utah and bad mouth Mormons. The whole reason Mormons came here was to get away from people who hated us.

---

I moved here for a work promotion without knowing squat about Mormons.
My problem with Mormons is the in your face BS. I don't like my privacy being invaded by your little minions. If I wanted to learn about the religion I'd grab a book or show up for sunday services.....no thanks, we're not interested.....oh that's right, your self-rightous little minons don't care what I want, its all about what they want, saving my soul.....
:roll:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamisJockey

Quote:

---

Utah is the home of the Mormons. Look, I'm not saying that if you aren't Mormon you aren't welcome here, but why would you move to Utah if you have a problem with Mormons? Everyone knows that Utah has been settled by Mormons and that it predominately is Mormon. If I had a problem with Catholics, I would not go to Boston (or more specifically the Vatican). I just don't see how you come to Utah and bad mouth Mormons. The whole reason Mormons came here was to get away from people who hated us.

---

I moved here for a work promotion without knowing squat about Mormons.
My problem with Mormons is the in your face BS. I don't like my privacy being invaded by your little minions. If I wanted to learn about the religion I'd grab a book or show up for sunday services.....no thanks, we're not interested.....oh that's right, your self-rightous little minons don't care what I want, its all about what they want, saving my soul.....
:roll:

---

I am not Mormon and I moved to Utah --- there is much more here than religion! The beauty of humans is that we are all different. That is a good thing guys! We don't want to be alike. How boring. :roll: I love people that are very different from me! :nod: I do give Becky, one of my favorite hiking partners a hard time about her underwear (garmets) though... but not because I hate it, just because ----- someone has to. :haha:

I moved here and I tried to read up on Mormonism before I got here. It still wasn't enough to prepare me for the change of culture. I did come from party town USA Bloomington, IN.

I think I know more about Mormonism and Mormon theology than any other religion out there. Some stuff even the kids brought up LDS didn't know about.

But I love Utah for it's outdoor opportunities, sunny skies most of the year and small town feel. I don't know how long I'll stay here though - it's nice and cheap but I don't have alot of friends either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by moabfool

Seems like people have a lot of beef with LDS missionaries.

---

as you already know, i have a beef with ANY type of missionary, it's just that mormonism is more in the forefront for me than other religions. on the other hand, i had a similar issue when i was approached on the streets by a missionary from the church of scientology ... asking me if i wanted to take a personality test ... using the line "what if there were something that could make you just a little bit happier" ... and after that, after i told her how i COMPLETELY disagree with members of any religion actively seeking out aherents ... she follows up with "yeah, i see what you mean, i think i understand where you're coming from ... BUT what if it could make you just a little bit happier"

AAK!!

Quote:

---

"Resistance is futile; you will be assimilated."

---

oh yes for a number of years in a row a couple of friends of mine dressed up as half borg/half mormon ... Elder 1 of 2 and Elder 2 of 2, perfect costumes with the missionary garb and the electronic headgear ... they won a number of contests including a radio show ... funny funny stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shan

I don't know how long I'll stay here though - it's nice and cheap but I don't have alot of friends either.

---

Ouch.... that last phrase cut to the bone. I am sorry if folks treat you differently or rudely. In case I haven't clearly stated it, I am a Mormon. I was raised in Provo, Utah, about a block from Cougar Stadium. I frankly believe that every Mormon needs to move from Utah for a couple of years and then if they choose, move back. The best thing for my personal values and social dealings was being in the minority. I wasn't going to comment any more on this thread cause the venom was beginning to spew. "Y'all just relax" was a phrase I learned in Texas. "Can't we all just get along" was the quote I heard from Rodney King when I lived in Los Angeles during the riots. And Jamis this is from a post a couple of months ago, just for you to discourage the missionaries from knocking on your door.

"If you don't like Mormon missionaries, here is a little advice from a returned Mormon missionary who was in California and Brazil. That would be me.

1. Doberman
2. Sign by door bell that reads "I eat Mormons for lunch -go away"
3. Sign by door bell that says "I flunked the baptism interview--- 5 times"
4. German Shepherd
5. Pit bull
6. Quarantine sign
7. One of those tombstones in the front yard that reads "Here lies the last two missionaries who tried to convert me"
8. Sign that reads, "I am looking for several wives"
9. Simply state to the missionaries that you are allergic to green jello, funeral potatoes, caffeine free diet coke and that you consider Jack Daniels medicine.
10. State that marijuana is a herb NOT to be used sparingly.

Those should help. They would have or did discourage me."

:cool2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scott Card

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shan

I don't know how long I'll stay here though - it's nice and cheap but I don't have alot of friends either.

---

Ouch.... that last phrase cut to the bone. I am sorry if folks treat you differently or rudely. In case I haven't clearly stated it, I am a Mormon. I was raised in Provo, Utah, about a block from Cougar Stadium. I frankly believe that every Mormon needs to move from Utah for a couple of years and then if they choose, move back. The best thing for my personal values and social dealings was being in the minority. I wasn't going to comment any more on this thread cause the venom was beginning to spew. "Y'all just relax" was a phrase I learned in Texas. "Can't we all just get along" was the quote I heard from Rodney King when I lived in Los Angeles during the riots. And Jamis this is from a post a couple of months ago, just for you to discourage the missionaries from knocking on your door.

"If you don't like Mormon missionaries, here is a little advice from a returned Mormon missionary who was in California and Brazil. That would be me.

1. Doberman
2. Sign by door bell that reads "I eat Mormons for lunch -go away"
3. Sign by door bell that says "I flunked the baptism interview--- 5 times"
4. German Shepherd
5. Pit bull
6. Quarantine sign
7. One of those tombstones in the front yard that reads "Here lies the last two missionaries who tried to convert me"
8. Sign that reads, "I am looking for several wives"
9. Simply state to the missionaries that you are allergic to green jello, funeral potatoes, caffeine free diet coke and that you consider Jack Daniels medicine.
10. State that marijuana is a herb NOT to be used sparingly.

Those should help. They would have or did discourage me."

:cool2:

---

How about "No thank you I'm not interested" shouldnt that be enough?
I was about ready to kick that little $@*!er in the nuts yesterday.....