Beetles Killing Tamarisk

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10-18-2011, 05:01 PM
Sandstone Addiction

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratagonia

And though you will think otherwise, I am well-informed on the issues,

I said "most people". I apologize if you thought I was including you. You clearly know what you are talking about and I appreciate your point of view.

Just curious, have you ever woke up at the crack of dawn, fired up the boat and carved up the wake at Lake Powell on the smoothest glass in the world? If not, maybe you should give it a try...you just might change your mind. :nod:

Nevermind, we've highjacked oldno7's thread long enough.

Dave
10-18-2011, 05:10 PM
Sandstone Addiction

Quote:

Originally Posted by canyoncaver

unsustainable nightmare cities like Vegas and Phoenix

Kinda selfish view, don't ya think? It's ok for you to live here, but to hell with everyone else??

Let's get together with Tom and we can all have some "Lake Powell Therapy"--it's amazing.
10-18-2011, 05:41 PM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandstone Addiction

Just curious, have you ever woke up at the crack of dawn, fired up the boat and carved up the wake at Lake Powell on the smoothest glass in the world?

I have... thought I was flying for a while, got a bit of vertigo looking down into the sky.

T
10-18-2011, 05:42 PM
CarpeyBiggs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandstone Addiction

I said "most people". I apologize if you thought I was including you. You clearly know what you are talking about and I appreciate your point of view.

Just curious, have you ever woke up at the crack of dawn, fired up the boat and carved up the wake at Lake Powell on the smoothest glass in the world? If not, maybe you should give it a try...you just might change your mind. :nod:
Dave

probably more often than you'd think... you ever explored any of the slots out there that weren't destroyed? just might change your mind. :nod:

still wish it wasn't a reservoir. but it's still enjoyable, even if it has destroyed one of the most amazing environments on earth. oh well, it's still worth enjoying the little bits by boat.

http://www.danransom.com/TripReports/?p=446
10-18-2011, 06:02 PM
oldno7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandstone Addiction

I said "most people". I apologize if you thought I was including you. You clearly know what you are talking about and I appreciate your point of view.

Just curious, have you ever woke up at the crack of dawn, fired up the boat and carved up the wake at Lake Powell on the smoothest glass in the world? If not, maybe you should give it a try...you just might change your mind. :nod:

Nevermind, we've highjacked oldno7's thread long enough.

Dave

No problem with the hi jack. I spend a lot of time at Powell and am a huge fan.:2thumbs:
10-19-2011, 06:53 AM
canyoncaver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandstone Addiction

Kinda selfish view, don't ya think? It's ok for you to live here, but to hell with everyone else??

Let's get together with Tom and we can all have some "Lake Powell Therapy"--it's amazing.

Ummm, I don't live in either one of those places.

I'd be up for some Lake Powell therapy. My wife and I did a five day kayak trip on Powell in 2004. So I know about the glassy water you speak of. It was on that trip I decided that I would rather see it drained. To each his own.
10-19-2011, 10:09 AM
xxnitsuaxx

Sandstone Addiction - read this

http://www.amazon.com/Cadillac-Deser.../dp/0140178244

and then make the same arguments you just did (seriously though, fountains in Las Vegas? That's like supporting tax cuts by claiming that they'll go to millionaires' yachts).
10-19-2011, 10:38 PM
Sandstone Addiction

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxnitsuaxx

(seriously though, fountains in Las Vegas? .

My point was that millions of people enjoy the fruits of Floyd's labors. I'm not really into fountains, but you can't argue the fact that lots of people do...I love recreating at Lake Powell and an occasional green salad.

Book looks interesting, I just might take you up on it.

Now, back to the point-- would someone help me understand how natural flooding on the Lower Colorado would take care of the tamaracks...when it has been flooding everywhere else since their introduction and they don't seem to be going away???
10-20-2011, 07:38 AM
canyoncaver

Sandstone,

I think you may have a point that the flooding (or lack of) issue and the invasive species issue are two different things. Flooding may affect the tamarisk population, but I think we are going to have to use things like bugs and fire to totally get rid of them.

I highly recommend Cadillac Desert to anyone that is remotely interested in the history of the development of the west. It certainly opened my eyes, and caused me to think differently about many water-related issues. It would probably be highly interesting to you because of your family history with the dam if nothing else.
10-20-2011, 08:05 AM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandstone Addiction

Book looks interesting, I just might take you up on it.

Now, back to the point-- would someone help me understand how natural flooding on the Lower Colorado would take care of the tamaracks...when it has been flooding everywhere else since their introduction and they don't seem to be going away???

Cadillac Desert - amazing book, should be required reading for anyone living west of the Rockies.

Tamaracks? Tamaracks do not grow well down here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Tamarack Larch, or Tamarack, or Hackmatack, or American Larch[2] (Larix laricina) is a species of larch native to Canada, from eastern Yukon and Inuvik, Northwest Territories east to Newfoundland, and also south into the northeastern United States from Minnesota to Cranesville Swamp, West Virginia; there is also a disjunct population in central Alaska. The name Tamarack is the Algonquian name for the species and means "wood used for snowshoes".

Tom
10-20-2011, 01:28 PM
restrac2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandstone Addiction

My point was that millions of people enjoy the fruits of Floyd's labors. I'm not really into fountains, but you can't argue the fact that lots of people do...I love recreating at Lake Powell and an occasional green salad.

Book looks interesting, I just might take you up on it.

Now, back to the point-- would someone help me understand how natural flooding on the Lower Colorado would take care of the tamaracks...when it has been flooding everywhere else since their introduction and they don't seem to be going away???

Flooding wouldn't be the primary means to eradicate the tamarisks. Biocontrol, fire and manual labor will do most of the work (a century or more?). But returning the Colorado and Green to a "natural" flow regime is the next step to "restoring"(I personally find the word flawed), in as much we can,
to some resemblance of what is was before the tames and dams. Floods help move the sandbanks, water the natives (like Cottonwoods who need floods for recruitment), deliver nutrients and disperse native seeds. Without a better flood the regime the system is screwed. Without floods then removing tamies really is just and atheistic decision (which can be important but fairly short-sighted). Without floods the natives will just replace the tames as a nuisance because their #s will swell to unnatural levels. Gross simplifications of course.

Phillip
10-20-2011, 02:44 PM
oldno7

The Escalante river floods rather regular and in epic proportions. It has a serious Tamarisk problem. It's flows are not regulated by any dam.
10-20-2011, 09:57 PM
flatiron

The PBS 4 part documentary was excellent, if you can get your hands on it. Also check out an article in OnEarth magazine Dec 21st 2010 about a study done to examine the books predictions 25 yrs ago.
10-20-2011, 10:15 PM
ratagonia

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatiron

The PBS 4 part documentary was excellent, if you can get your hands on it. Also check out an article in OnEarth magazine Dec 21st 2010 about a study done to examine the books predictions 25 yrs ago.

Uh, a little help, please. A four part documentary... based on Cadillac Desert?????

Tom
10-21-2011, 06:14 AM
EvergreenDean

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxnitsuaxx

Sandstone Addiction - read this

http://www.amazon.com/Cadillac-Deser.../dp/0140178244

and then make the same arguments you just did (seriously though, fountains in Las Vegas? That's like supporting tax cuts by claiming that they'll go to millionaires' yachts).

Yes, required reading for sure. And after that book infuriates you and calls you to action, you can read this one for some ideas about what you can do: http://www.amazon.com/Monkey-Wrench-...9202990&sr=8-1
10-21-2011, 05:49 PM
flatiron

Yes, I never read the book but saw the doc. Just great. Never went to DVD, but still avail VHS. Boulder Co has an incredible place called Video Station that has it. Can also buy on Amazon. But PBS no longer even has it on their website. 1st part is all about LA Water chief Mulholland and LA's water grab. 2nd part is Colorado River and dams. 3rd about Calif Central Valley and fights over water and pollution, etc. There is some stuff on Youtube also. Catch a little Floyd Dominy on this one - just a tad arrogant.http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...uipg5ZwlRF_8Xw
10-22-2011, 11:46 PM
kvklay

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvergreenDean

Yes, required reading for sure. And after that book infuriates you and calls you to action, you can read this one for some ideas about what you can do: http://www.amazon.com/Monkey-Wrench-...9202990&sr=8-1

A recent gift from my good friend, this is a book I've been wanting to check out for years. An entertaining 2 day read full of weird characters turned eco-terrorists who destroy billboards, bulldozers, bridges, & mine trains in an effort to combat developers and preserve the Southwest.

http://reviewastore.co.uk/image/y/R.gif
10-25-2011, 05:30 AM
kelleyp

Here are some other books on the water isssue.
"The Place No One Knew" by Eliot Porter out of print?

"A River No More" Philip Fradkin

"All My Rivers Are Gone" Katie Lee

And a book that is not specifically about the river but really gets to the heart of this whole discussion, "Eaarth: Making Life On A Tough New Planet" Bill McKibben No, its not a typo. We now live on a different planet of our own creation. Peace, Kelley
10-25-2011, 04:48 PM
canyoncaver

Don't forget Down the River, by Edward Abbey.

It's a collection of stories that are either about river float trips, or environmental decisions where something was sold down the river, or both. A great read.
10-26-2011, 08:43 AM
Sandstone Addiction

Quote:

Originally Posted by canyoncaver

Don't forget Down the River, by Edward Abbey.

One Edward Abbey book was enough for me, way too extreme.

Besides, since I discovered Bogley, I don't have time to read books!! HA HA :lol8:

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