Knotted Rope - Swellfest 2006

by the way I am technically only half sardinian , so a mellow one.... :popcorn:

Sardinians are strong, proud, attached to land and tradition, small in number, not in spirit. Long isolation and a past marked by foreign dominations and invasions have left them friendly, yet a bit cold. However, after a first impact, they turn into a hospitable and generous people. Thus, for example, primarily in hamlets, you are often invited immediately to an event like a birth or marriage or simply to taste special, home-made food . Indeed, due to harsh life conditions, traditional Sardinia puts strong emphasis on rituality and ceremonies such as baptisms, engagements, illness-deaths, identified as the key steps of the

:popcorn:

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Originally Posted by hesse15

by the way I am technically only half sardinian , so a mellow one....

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Yikes! thanks for the warning. I'll be sure to invest in a kevlar codpiece when i visit.

off to BIFF

see y'all next week...

What if rescuee were unconscious?
would make a broken arm seem quite minor.
theres always got to be a solution but without facts
our speculations are unending.
I think it is just our nature too think that we could/would do
something that would save ones life in a like situation but having not been there at that time no one can say for sure.

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Originally Posted by hesse15

I will not blame and accept us NATURAL EVENT that modify a canyon.

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http://en.ce.cn/National/Local/20070...11578106.shtml

I talked to my bro in law who lives in Mona and know the couple quite well. He said the hole was deep enough he had to hold her up out of the water to keep her from drowning. Unfortunately this meant he could do much rigging without leaving her. Also, the man is tiny and wasn't able to lift her out. Apparently he spent about 4 hours doing this. He wasn't sure what happened in the end. Most likely the guy became exhausted and she drowned. Sad.

I realize I'm a little late on this one but I will backup Ice that the pipes had become completely bent and basically useless as a pothole crossing aid. In a trip through KR some time in the last year or so(I don't remember if the pipe was there when I upclimbed it in Oct or not, I think it was my previous trip), I got to the pothole in question. I and others in my group tried to figure out how to use the bent pipe as a "pole vault" or as a "traverse aid" as it had been suggested and the pipe was too bent to be useful so we climbed around sans pipe. Picture a shallow U or the smile on an exaggerated smiley shape. Thats all. I guess everyone can argue whether or not it was the canyoneering community's moral duty to replace the useless pipes with fresh straight pipes. No one should be blamed for carrying the now useless pipe out and cleaning up the canyon.

Ben

KillEmAll - Question:

so he rappelled or jumped into the pool to assist his wife but the water was so deep that they could not reach the bottom?

a solution might have been to set up a prussik with fa ootloop in an attempt to get her out of the water and then tying her onto the rope in some way. but with having to hold her and then tying it one handed would have been very difficult even for the best of us.

Shane: is tthis he same pothole that MK shows in his book? the one where Tom is climbing out?

tough situation all around and one that I hopefully would never have to encounter.

KillEmAll, thanks for the additional information. As is normal with this type of thing the more details that come out the more you understand what happened.

I do know that SAR found the woman rigged in ropes to try and keep her out of the water. I didn't ask about the particulars of the rigging.

Bruce, below is a pic of the pothole where the accident occured. MK has no pics of this pothole that I'm aware of in his book. The pothole was down about 3' from what is shown in the pic below.

http://climb-utah.com/SRS/Files/knottedrope2.jpg

thanks for the clarification on the photo.

when reading the news reports details that showed the effort he exerted are usually ommitted. I'm sure that he did everything in his power to save her life given what he had to work with.

Old thread, but just in case anyone is interested, here is a current photo I took Saturday of where the death occured.

http://www.summitpost.org/images/medium/401872.JPG

We took ful crevasse rescue gear, aiders, etc just in case. The traverse was easy, but the pothole and most of the canyon was dry. If you had muddy or wet shoes though that would be different and I can see how a fall here would be pretty nasty and how it could be difficult.

Anyway there were only a few pipes in the canyon. There were some below the canyon so its possible that some were actually washed out naturally. The places were the pipes currently are aren't really needed and in fact they are quite slippery, bent and getting quite rusty and corroded. I would go prepared to do the canyon without the pipes since even if they are there they are eventually going to corrode to the point that they will become useless.

I call this a moderately difficult move... with high penalty points for messing up....

From the pic it appears the water in the pothole is really low?

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I call this a moderately difficult move...

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I assume that could jump to quite difficult with muddy shoes or perhaps even wet ones.

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From the pic it appears the water in the pothole is really low?

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It's actually bone dry. We only had to wade two waist deep pools farther down.

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Originally Posted by Scott P

It's actually bone dry. We only had to wade two waist deep pools farther down.

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How deep is the pothole? I've never seen it dry.

:popcorn:

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How deep is the pothole?

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I believe about 8-9 feet on the down canyon side and perhaps a tiny bit higher on the upcanyon side. Since the bottom was sandy I guess the depth could change a bit from time to time.

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

I call this a moderately difficult move... with high penalty points for messing up....

From the pic it appears the water in the pothole is really low?

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:eek2: I call it scary! :haha:

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Originally Posted by tanya

:eek2: I call it scary! :haha:

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It's not as bad as it looks in the picture.... there are waco's to stick your hands in to hold on... see where his hands are in the picture?

but you still don't want to fall.... this reminds me of some of the high stemming we do in canyons.... It's not as hard or dramtic as it looks in the pictures.... but you do not want to fall.

Teaching moment.... in the picture the canyoneer in yellow would do much better if his foot was flat against the sandstone.... you want as much rubber in contact with the sandstone as you can get.

:cool2:

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

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Originally Posted by tanya

:eek2: I call it scary! :haha:

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It's not as bad as it looks in the picture.... there are waco's to stick your hands in to hold on... see where his hands are in the picture?

but you still don't want to fall.... this reminds me of some of the high stemming we do in canyons.... It's not as hard or dramtic as it looks in the pictures.... but you do not want to fall.

:cool2:

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Hueco, my friend Shane. The whacko's go home on most days, so they are not a reliable thing to stick your hands in.

Tom

I missed this thread before going down knotted rope a few weeks ago (see earlier TR) I was unaware as to where the accident had occured. Honestly I don't even remember that particular pot. Would have been nice to know.

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Honestly I don't even remember that particular pot.

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First pothole. Judging by the footprints, some recent groups have gone right through it since it was dry. When dry there are actually a few good footholds to get out on the down canyon side, but we did the traverse anyway.