Assault Weapons?

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Originally Posted by ratagonia

laws that will not get passed and, if passed, will not survive review by the Supremes.

But such is the paranoiac rantings of the hoplaphilic.

Tom :moses:

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I wouldn't be so sure about that, Tom. Three years and at least one old geezer being replaced on the Court can make all the difference.

Here's a lyric from a Frank Zappa song "The Central Scrutinizer" he wrote this in 1979:

"Our studies have shown that this horrible force is so dangerous to society at large that laws are being drawn up at this very moment to stop it forever! Cruel and inhuman punishments are being described in tiny paragraphs so they won't conflict with the constitution (which itself is being modified in order to accommodate the future).

The "paranoia", Tom... is a distinct possibility. Just like you're fear of abortion being outlawed.

@ratagonia. much better. :2thumbs: now i get it. i guess i fall in to the hoplophiliac camp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...;v=kbOGktZFMv8

Thanks Kent for the ammo infusion.....outta keep me busy for a little while! :2thumbs:

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Originally Posted by Bluff-Canyoneer

I'm sure they would rather have their kids alive and not have the limelight.

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The kids are not coming back. Allowing yourself to be a sideshow is a choice. The parents that understand that nothing drawn up so far would have prevented the shooting, aren't joining the sideshow.

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Originally Posted by JP

The kids are not coming back. Allowing yourself to be a sideshow is a choice. The parents that understand that nothing drawn up so far would have prevented the shooting, aren't joining the sideshow.

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The aim of gun control is not to prevent every shooting; that is obviously impossible. An unreasonable viewpoint nevertheless requires absolute prevention of yesterday's violence as the minimum standard for considering any change that might prevent or mitigate tomorrow's. Kind of a preemptive strawman. The fact is that we have no data about the effectiveness of certain measures, because they have not been tried.

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Originally Posted by hank moon

The aim of gun control is not to prevent every shooting; that is obviously impossible. An unreasonable viewpoint nevertheless requires absolute prevention of yesterday's violence as the minimum standard for considering any change that might prevent or mitigate tomorrow's. Kind of a preemptive strawman. The fact is that we have no data about the effectiveness of certain measures, because they have not been tried.

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We also have no data on restricting ownership of lengths of rope in excess of 30'!!!!
If we can adopt this "common sense" measure, it would have eliminated every recent death by rope in Utah.
We at least owe it to the families of those lost in these canyoneering/swing incidence to try and end the carnage.
If we can save just one life by making rope length's longer than 30' illegal, we owe it to these families to try.
I know we can't ban all rope because theres already too much out there.
But 93.7% of the American people believe that a rope length restriction is needed to prevent any further deaths.

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Originally Posted by hank moon

The fact is that we have no data about the effectiveness of certain measures, because they have not been tried.

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So you consider shredding the Bill of Rights an effective measure?


Too many this is not about saving lives, this is about maintaining freedom. We might also save lives by restricting religion or free speech. It's the exact same thing to many. It's a right handed down to me by my forefathers, it's a right I intend to hand down to my children. Freedom has always been paid for in blood and always will be.

YMMV :flag:

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Originally Posted by Iceaxe

this is about maintaining freedom

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And the slippery slope we would be walking on if one is allowed to be altered for a few individuals.

One of the limelight parents...


Away from the spotlight, Sandy Hook parent battles criminal charges

John Pirro

Updated 10:04 pm, Tuesday, May 7, 2013

Neil Heslin, father of a slain Sandy Hook first-grader, has appeared before Congress and the state Legislature urging the passage of tough gun-control measures.But on Wednesday he will make an appearance of another kind, this time before a state Superior Court judge in Milford, to answer a variety of criminal and motor vehicle charges ranging from operating with a suspended license to issuing bad checks to larceny.Reached by telephone on Tuesday, Heslin, who lives in Shelton, said he couldn't discuss the five cases dating back to July 2011 that will require him to be in court. He referred all comment to the lawyers representing him."You're welcome to call my attorneys and get their comments. I have no objections to that, but I have representation," he said.Calls to both lawyers weren't returned on Tuesday.Heslin's status as a father of a murdered child in one of the country's most notorious sprees of gun violence has turned the self-employed, 50-year-old contractor into a prominent activist, one who is often shown on TV and in newspapers displaying the portrait of his murdered son, Jesse Lewis.It's made his legal troubles fodder for gun-rights websites, conspiracy buffs and so-called truthers, who claim the massacre of 20 first-graders and six adults on Dec. 14 was part of a government plot. And it illustrates how the high-visibility roles embraced by Heslin and some others from Newtown have put their private lives squarely into public view."One crooked gun control hero" and "Heckled Sandy Hook dad has sordid past," are typical of the headlines on several Internet articles seeking to discredit Heslin for his alleged "criminal associations."The allegations against Heslin, if true, mostly paint a picture of a man struggling with his business finances and stiffing his creditors.Three of the cases involved writing bad checks, the largest for $2,424, which he used to buy building materials he purchased for a job that his company, V&H Construction, was doing in Oxford.Court documents indicate that when the supplier, O&G Construction of Torrington, delivered the material on Sept. 19, 2011, Heslin initially said he forgot his checkbook but provided the salesman with a check later the same week. After the check, which also included a disconnected phone number for Heslin's business and an invalid driver's license number, was returned for insufficient funds, an O&G representative contacted State Police.Heslin promised to make good on it but never did, police said.In addition to passing a bad check, a misdemeanor, he was charged with third-degree larceny in that case.The two other cases involve checks on closed accounts that Heslin allegedly used to pay for just over $1,000 worth of home heating oil in June 2012 and a check for $102.35 worth of repairs to his vehicle at an Ansonia tire shop six months earlier.He has pleaded not guilty to all charges.The motor vehicle charges were the result of stops by Shelton police in July and August 2011. The operating under suspension counts indicate that his license had been suspended for a previous drunken-driving conviction, but there was no information available about that case in state Superior Court records. He also was charged with failure to display plates, carry registration and carry insurance as a result of the July stop.Former state Victim Advocate Michelle Cruz, now in private practice in Hartford, said Tuesday that pointing out past indiscretions "is often used as a way to undermine a victim's credibility." Heslin's legal problems, she said, have nothing to do with his work on gun control."Whether someone has a pending matter shouldn't invalidate what someone is saying about their victimization," she said. "This parent may have a larceny charge that they have to deal with, but that has nothing to do with a child being murdered," she said.Cruz added that the publicity about Heslin's charges -- most of which are at a level that rarely draws news media scrutiny -- also point to why some victims shun the spotlight."Victims are sometimes reluctant to come forward out of fear of being ridiculed, but they often have valid points about what they want to see happen and how the situation has affected them," she said.Heslin has been among the most forceful and visible of the Sandy Hook parents pushing for gun restrictions. "I'm really ashamed to see that Congress doesn't have the guts to stand up and make a change and put a ban on these types of weapons," Heslin said at a news conference with Vice President Joe Biden and New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg after the Senate failed to enact a ban on assault weapons.Court records indicate that Heslin apparently drew the ire of Judge Frank Iannotti for not showing up an appearance in state Superior Court in Derby, where the five cases were being heard on April 15.Heslin wouldn't say Tuesday why he wasn't present, but according to several news reports he was in Washington, D.C., with several other Newtown families, unsuccessfully lobbying the Senate to pass a variety of gun-control bills, including one that would have instituted universal background checks for firearms purchases.Iannotti ordered Heslin to bring proof of his whereabouts on April 15 to court in Milford, where the judge will sit Wednesday.Heslin didn't want to discuss whether his legal problems might undermine his advocacy efforts."I never gave it much thought. I guess you can look at it either way," he said. "If there's something to talk about, people are going to talk about it, good or bad, no matter what. I don't really have any comment on that part of it either. Down the road, I may be able to."Staff writer Dirk Perrefort contributed to this story. jpirro@newstimes.com; 203-731-3342

I love how the limelight parent enjoys basking in his right to a fair trial with proper representation, and yet is willing to trash anther right of equal importance.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

apparently he values the 6th and likely the 5th...maybe the 7th and 8th

Sure is nice to pick and choose according to personal interest.

The ole ala carte BOR.:facepalm1:

Heres an "actual" poll, conducted by "actual" LEO.

http://www.policeone.com/Gun-Legisla...cers-thoughts/

And for those ignorant enough to think there are currently no background checks--study up.

The April numbers would be higher but inventory is quite depleted and slow to recover.

And these numbers do not take into account that many states don't require a NICS if you have a Concealed carry permit.

Another 1.7million law abiding citizens:2thumbs:

And since inception, the government has had close to 170million checks run

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nic...als-033113.pdf

Utah Lawmaker Seeks to Attract Beretta, Other Gun Companies from Anti Gun States With Lucrative Tax Incentives
MAY 21 2013

As some states such as Maryland, Connecticut, and Colorado turn their backs on gun companies who have contributed to their state economies for years by passing extremely restrictive anti gun laws, other, pro-gun states are actively courting gun companies to bring jobs to their states.

Case in point, Utah State Senator Howard Stephenson is filing legislation to give very attractive tax breaks to companies like Beretta who are seeking a new base of operations as their home states turn more and more anti gun.

The following was posted on Stephenson’s state senate blog,

My initial proposal will be to reduce obstacles and offer incentives to gun manufacturers located in the Beehive State. This might include eliminating sales taxes on machinery, equipment and replacement parts which are used in the manufacture of guns.

This is an exciting opportunity for Utah, and tomorrow’s Republican State Convention provides an additional exciting opportunity to open up a discussion about bringing Beretta and other gun manufacturers to our state.

At tomorrow’s convention I’ll have a co-sponsor list with me. I’m anxious to continue this discussion, and I hope that the other state legislators in attendance will find me and sign on to this opportunity for Utah.

It’s obvious that state governments are serious about attracting the large number of jobs and positive economic impact that large gunmakers would bring with them.

Texas Governor Rick Perry is another public official who has been publicly and aggressively courting gun companies to move to the famously gun friendly state of Texas.

At least one gun related company has already bolted from their home state following the passage of restrictive gun laws. Magpul Industries, which manufactures one of the most popular magazines for AR-15 style rifles on the market, along with other accessories has almost completely moved their operations from the state of Colorado following the passage of extremely anti gun laws there, including a law which would make their would famous magazines illegal within the state.

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Originally Posted by hank moon

The aim of gun control is not to prevent every shooting; that is obviously impossible. An unreasonable viewpoint nevertheless requires absolute prevention of yesterday's violence as the minimum standard for considering any change that might prevent or mitigate tomorrow's. Kind of a preemptive strawman. The fact is that we have no data about the effectiveness of certain measures, because they have not been tried.

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Well there is a theory that these shooters do this for the notoriety.
So lets pass a law that says the press cannot publicize these shootings and never mention the incident or the shooter.

That way we are only suspending the first amendment. Who knows, we should just try it and see if it works.
What do you think Hank? It could be an effective measure.

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Originally Posted by RedMan

Well there is a theory that these shooters do this for the notoriety.

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That is not a theory.... that is a fact.

If you have read the letters and watched the videos left behind by the Columbine shooters you would know their number one objective was to beat Timothy McVeay's OK City body count and become "famous". They didn't "break the record", but the media certainly made Eric and Dylan famous.

Ditto for the Virginia Tech Shooter.


Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

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^^^^That girl in the back has some huge man-paws

And the one in front(gunowner) is by far the cutest AND she has great trigger finger control:2thumbs::mrgreen:

Time to revisit this thread...

This is a fantastic short speech against the totalitarian gun grab the New York government did with the so-called, 'Safe act'.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44zW84FKd50

MagPul totally gave Colorado's legislature the finger on their way out! Dumping 20,000 hi cap mags on their market the day before their ban went into effect... Love it....

I also noticed Colorado is recalling several of the representatives that passed the anti gun laws. They are not even waiting for the 2014 elections to toss them out of office. Mark my words... the next election will be a blood bath for the democrats and those that opposed the second amendment.

Tap'n on my Galaxy G3

Nice post.....

Do I Need A Reason To Own or Buy A Gun?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e96T7rW2OWM

Go CO.
Sounds like hickelooper has set a recall election date of Sept. 10

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/polit...go-on_69968138

Who could not see this coming:lol8:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ally-firing-s/

Today all of my back ordered high capacity magazines arrive.... I now have more firepower than most small nations.


Here's to you Obama.


Attachment 68069


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ky7WZR49TY

Attachment 68161

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9NrTZPXCDo

I told ya all this would happen.... heads are going to roll in this years elections. You don't mess with our guns.

Tonight, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor lost his reelection bid to pro-gun Republican David Brat. Cantor didn't even make it out of the primaries. David Brat is 100% in favor of your right to keep and bear arms.

Eric Cantor was supporting key parts of Barack Obama’s anti-gun agenda and just last week voted with anti-gun Democrats to spend $20 million more on Obama’s anti-gun agenda.

Supporters of the Second Amendment have sent a loud message that voting for gun control in Congress is not acceptable.

I love rino hunting......

Free pdf download of historic book, "Negroes with Guns", by Robert Franklin Williams

https://libcom.org/history/negroes-g...ert-f-williams

Excerpts:

We were still sitting in the car. The man who was driving
the stock car got out of the car with a baseball bat and
started walking toward us saying, "******, what did you hit
me for?" I didn't say anything to him. We just sat there looking
at him. He came up close to our car, within arm's length
with the baseball bat, but I still hadn't said anything and we
didn't move in the car. What they didn't know was that we
were armed. Under North Carolina state law it is legal to
carry firearms in your automobile so long as these firearms
are not concealed.

...

As a tactic we use and approve non-violent resistance.
But we also believe that a man cannot have human dignity if
he allows himself to be abused, to be kicked and beaten to
the ground, to allow his wife and children to be attacked,
refusing to defend them and himself on the basis that he's
so pious, so self-righteous, that it would demean his personality
if he fought back.

We know that the average Afro-American is not a pacifist.
He is not a pacifist and he has never been a pacifist and
he is not made of the type of material that would make a
good pacifist. Those who doubt that the great majority of
Negroes are not pacifists, just let them slap one. Pick any
Negro on any street corner in the U.S.A. and they will find
out how much he believes in turning the other cheek.

All those who dare to attack are going to learn the hard
way that the Afro-American is not a pacifist, that he cannot
forever be counted on not to defend himself. Those who attack
him brutally and ruthlessly can no longer expect to attack
him with impunity.

Attachment 75456

p.s. this book is a short read and well worth the time for those unfamiliar with non-passive resistance in the U.S. civil rights movement.

Also offers a look at a little-known corner of NRA history.